Think Different Theory

Balancing Life, Family, and a 7-Figure Business


In the episode, I interview Damon Burton, the owner of a 7-figure search engine optimization firm, author of the upcoming SEO book ”Outrank,” and host of the successful new ”Learning from Others” podcast for entrepreneurs.


Damon is a well respected business owner that has had some of his clients for over a DECADE. He has landed clients like the Utah Jazz Basketball team, but is best known for his commitment to his family.

Damon comes on to talk about balancing a 7-figure business, quality work, thinking long-term, life, and how having a family with kids can be difficult, but not impossible. If you’re an entrepreneurial father or mother, you’re gonna this episode.

Here are the key topics discussed in this episode:

  • Damon’s entrepreneurial journey (05:53)  
  • Being cool with not knowing what you want (07:00)
  • Transitioning into high ticket: It’s a risk-reward thing (19:04)
  • Winning the race slow and steady (23:53)
  • Finding the right balance for you (31:53)
  • What simple value can do to a business (32:28)
  • Results speak louder than anything (36:53)
  • Establishing a reputation with the right people (38:37)
  • Balancing success and a family (43:25)
  • Facing the dark areas of your life (49:30)
  • Figuring out what opportunities exists to achieve more (52:40)
  • It all boils down to giving it a try (59:39)
  • Quit overthinking, there’s never a perfect time (1:02:36)


Be sure to follow me on the below platforms:

Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google, or Stitcher.

Instagram @joshforti




August 14th, 2019


Be sure to follow me on Instagram @joshforti

You can find the transcripts and more at

You can find this episode plus all the previous episode here.

Be sure to grab a copy of The Mindshift Playbook here

If you haven’t already, please rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts!


Disclaimer:    The Transcript Is Auto-Generated And May Contain Spelling And Grammar Errors

00:00:00 I like zoned out for a minute looking at him and I was like, “You know what, one day like tomorrow, this moment is going to be gone, and he’s going to be 18, and he’s not going to come home anymore.” And now he’s 20. The other’s now 20. And so, I can very distinctly compare black and white experiences night and day, between when my siblings were a certain age, and now my oldest is eight.

00:00:25 You are now entering a new paradigm. So, here’s my issue. I wanted to find the answers to life’s biggest questions. Things like, how do I become happy and live with purpose? How do I make more money doing what I love, and what does it mean to be truly successful in all areas of life? My name is Josh Forti, @JoshForti on Instagram, and I ask life’s biggest questions and share the answers with you. My goal is to help you find purpose, happiness, and open your mind to new realms of possibility by helping you think differently about everything you do, know, and understand. On this podcast, we think different, we dream bigger, and we live in a world without limits. This is a new paradigm. Welcome to The Think Different Theory.

00:01:09 What’s up guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Think Different Theory. My name is Josh Forti and I’ve brought an interesting guest for us here today. I’m very excited to kind of dive in. Usually speaking when I bring guests on the show, I know a little bit about them and have had some form of interaction or I follow them for a while so I noticed some context around them. But my next guest is actually a guy who, funny story, he reached out via the email requests. Was it on our website or… how did you get it on there? How did you get the email?

00:01:40 It was on a contact form. Yeah.

00:01:42 Yeah. The contact form on our website, fills it out, sends it over, says, “ Hey, I’m a good friend of Emmy.’’ who we had on the show, and he sent me a little bio. You guys know. I’m a business nerd. I love people that have made it and figured it out and done really cool things and I want to more or less, this is a pick your brain session with this guy. So, my next guest has been in radio or was in radio for over seven years. Got into marketing, started a marketing company. He’s done businesses with…many businesses on shark tank, the Utah Jazz, NBA Basketball Team, a phenomenal entrepreneur, very very smart man and at least sounds like, I guess we’ll find out. He’s been married for 13 years and has three kids, which really attracts a lot of people. Welcome to the show, Mr. Hopefully I don’t butcher your name. Damon Burton.

00:02:32 You got it. Yeah. We’re less than 36 hours into unofficially knowing each other. And here we are talking already.

00:02:39 Look at us go man. But I am intrigued by your story. First off, how’ve you been man, how’s life?

00:02:46 I’m doing good man. I got a lot of fun stuff going on the family side, which I’m sure we’ll get into. Some big projects with a cabin and a pool, building memories with the family. So I’m excited to see those things unfold.

00:03:00 That’s amazing. So how do you know Emmy? Cause that’s our connection, right? Like you know Emmy.

 00:03:05 yeah. So Emmy, um, him and I had, we met online and I want to say it started on Linkedin. So I’ve been, uh, linkedin kind of in my- LinkedIn’s kind of been my platform of choice in the last year. I get a lot more exposure on there and so I open up, they’re more and more vulnerable there. I share info more daily there.

00:03:26 Um, and so it, I mean I connected there and then we kind of similar to you and I, we just like, hey, you know, I appreciate what you’ve done. You appreciate what I’ve done. And we just kind of chatted and that was it. Like none of us fit each other out for anything. And then we just chatted for a little bit.

00:03:41 um, then he made an intro to a guy that does a certain SEO thing and, and it just Kinda kept in touch and when we’d go back and forth and send each other’s Kudos here and there. And so I, when you guys connected and it said, hey, Amy’s got a thing going on on Facebook. So I checked it out because we’re friends and here we are.

00:03:56 Look at that, Amy. Amy’s next level smart. Like he’s too smart for me. He’s just crazy. I love him. Um, but, uh, he, he knows everyone. Everyone. I’ve never met a more connected person than that guy.

00:04:11 You know what’s funny is as you nailed it, like usually when you have those, like I went to this networking thing like a week ago and this guy is sitting at the table that I’m at and he goes, so I work with, uh, you know, celebrities and politicians in Europe and like business owners in Africa. And like, it was so pukey that it was fake. And so Amy comes rolling around and he’s like,

00:04:32 he’s like saying the same stuff, but you’re like, I think this guy’s legit. That’s a lot of stuff. Like, oh,

00:04:38 I thought he was totally full of crap, dude. Whenever the first time I met him, I got on the phone with him, uh, through my business partner and she’s like, this guy, you gotta meet him, you’re going to love it. Am I all right? I get on course. You know, if you guys listened to the interview, big accent, right? It can hardly understand the guy because he talks so fast. And, uh, we get on and he’s telling me about some of the stuff that he’s doing. And I got off the phone, I said, Laura, this guy’s full of crap. Like I, nobody can do that much. And um, which was true, but, uh, he is, he’s the real deal man. I’ve never seen anything like him.

00:05:10 And, uh, what he’s been through in his life and how he’s gotten there is, uh, it’s something to be learned from, that’s for sure.

00:05:16 Yeah. Yeah. He’s a cool guy. Yeah. So that’s how we got connected. And now we’re on a podcast. Guys just goes to show you. If you reach out, maybe you’ll get your shot. Who knows. Um, but dude, let’s dive into your story a little bit. I don’t know anything about you other than the fact that you seem like a smart dude and, uh, if nothing else, you know how to put together a bio that intrigues people. So, um, give us the short backgrounds about [inaudible] radio for seven years, marketing, MBA, jazz team and shark tank deals and plus married and have three kids. Like give us the five minutes, uh, cliff notes, summary version of your life and how you got to where you’re at today. And a little sneak peek for people of what they can expect us to and a dive into further.

00:05:53 Cool. Yeah, so I’ll kind of give you the abbreviated version and we can just let go wherever it goes from there. Um, so I’ve, I started a, a company called SEO National in 2007. And the, the backstory on how I got to running an international company was, um, is w we’ll go back maybe high school, college years. Um, back then Internet wasn’t really commercial, like it was starting to obviously be pretty popular and well used, but the, there wasn’t like design classes and marketing classes yet. And so I just kind of dabbled in it because it was kind of cool. It was just something new and fun. And, um, you know, part of my interest came from being from probably lower class family, uh, financial family and, and there’s no sad story behind. It was like my chest was a wreck. Um, but I didn’t have computers at home or anything like that.

00:06:39 And so I was really interested, I mean even way, way, way back like sixth grade, seventh grade, um, I took typing classes cause I’m like, hell yeah, I want to do typing like this thing school. So I always had this kind of thing in the back of my mind, like computers are cool and, and so I just dabbled in it and then fast forward a little bit, uh, to college. And I was taking generals cause they didn’t really know what I wanted to do. And, and I think that’s really important for, uh, aspiring entrepreneurs to, to keep in mind is like I was cool with not knowing what I wanted to do. As I was comfortable with them. I was like, I’m going to figure it out. It’s, I’m not gonna chase all these things. I’m just going to experiment and then figure out what I like and don’t like.

00:07:15 So I was just doing generals and I took an internship at a radio station and back then it was called Millcreek broadcasting. Now it’s called Broadway media. And the funny thing about radio is, is like if you get into radio and you want to get on air, usually you end up having to take a really crappy internship at a station that you hate. And I had the total opposite experience. I, I went and worked for a hip hop station called unity too. And, and it was awesome. I, so I got to intern in a station I loved and within two months I was on air. And so I did on air for about seven years, but at the same time I also knew it was something that I didn’t want to do. And definitely because if you know anything about radio, you’ll hear the talent come and go.

00:07:55 And it’s not like you can just go to the other radio station across the street because people will recognize your voice. So you got to move out of state.

00:08:00 Real quick. Did you just like luck of the draw happened to stumble into that radio, like becoming on air or did you get, because you were talented or like how’d you get, I mean two months is pretty fast time to be on the radio.

00:08:13 Yeah. So my first foot in the door, it was, um, I was working at my day job and I called in there. They were doing just one of the normal giveaways, like they’re giving away tickets to, do you remember a little bow [inaudible] that guy?

00:08:28   I’m too young for that.

00:08:29 Huh. So, um, he, they were giving me tickets to a little bow and uh, and so I called him that and I won the tickets.

00:08:37 And what was funny is when, and I didn’t know until later when you’re on the when I was a talent on air, but I do major editing behind the scenes of their core call and they chop it up to make it funny and whatever. Right. The guy who would later become my boss, the promotions director, Scott, him and I are still good friends. Um, he chops up and I was really, I was really bland on, on my, on the, on the phone call and he gets it. So he plays, he plays my recording and says congratulations Damon. And then he hangs up, but then while he’s still on the air, he goes, man, if I was that boring, I’d kill myself or something like that-

00:09:10 Wow. No.

00:09:12 and so, but what was funny is in between the recording and the airing, we were talking offline and I go, Hey, um, uh, how, how do I get my foot in the door and radio?

00:09:24 And he goes, dude, you already wanted to take us to the show. If you want, just come out and a com will come an hour early. Help me set up and we’ll go from there. So I went out and I just interned on that, that one show, and then he says, Hey, you know, you, you did good work, so let’s do this other. And so I just started doing what’s called remotes, where you go to these promotional events, you set up a concerts and shows. And so that’s how I got my foot in the door. And then, um, the way I got on air is when I was in the, in the radio station. I obviously met the other staff and I just kind of sit in every once in a while and learn the board, which, you know, the equipment and then, and then my, my boss and his friend.

00:10:03 So, so the first guy that was teasing me about the show, his name’s Scott. He was a promotional director. Well, his friend Zach Davis, who I’m also friends with still, um, he was the program director. So he was the one that, that worked on air and manage the honor staff. And he goes, hey, we have a, an opening overnight. So it was like the late night where I started, where, where there’s, there’s less risk, right, because less people are listening. So I started doing that and then I got bumped up to doing weekends and then I got bumped up to covering shifts of the day talent. And then I, I just started filling in the gaps and the, and just improved my experience. So yeah, it was, it was a couple, um, you know, chance timings that evolved that,

00:10:43 that’s super cool. That’s actually funny. I never was on air, but I interned for a radio station. Same, same thing. I won a prize. I went there to pick it up. They were going to do an internship. They were actually looking for an intern, um, and I think they were looking for two, but then I showed up. I went in there and they liked me, so they brought on three and it was me and these two other girls and we would just go and, uh, we’d help him set up for events. And for me, I wanted to learn sales and I knew that they had a really good sales team. Um, they’re at that radio station. It was like a group of like five. And so I would intern, I would go, like do my shift for a couple of hours and then I would sit like in the office until the head sales guy would get off their, like your sales calls or whatever.

00:11:25 And I just kept asking like, over and over, like, can I just sit next to you? Right. Like, can I just sit in your office, like learn? And so I would go and like drive around with him and whatnot. And I had no idea who this guy was, but apparently like he was the president of like this big like multi-state thing. And he flew in once a week back and forth from like Minnesota on a private jet and all that. Um, but yeah, that’s how I got my start. So anyway, funny story there. But um, back to your story. So you, you do this, you get involved with radio and then what happens?

00:11:53 So I had, I had kind of kept doing the website thing on the side just for fun. And I had started a car enthusiast’s website. Um, I was really big into cars in my early twenties, and the, the car website started to gain traction. And so I started thinking, well, how do I make this better? And so that’s when I got more into web design and then I said, how do I monetize this? And so that’s how I started teaching myself. Marketing, online marketing. And so I was the guy that, that you always hear about the kind of data on the side for a while and then I, I got better at it. And so when I was in radio in between doing your on-air breaks where you talk on the mic, um, a lot of times you’re just kind of sitting there. And so I would work on my websites cause we have the Internet in the studio and I would just kind of dabble on my websites.

00:12:34 And that’s how, that’s where I spent some time growing the audience for my personal hobby sites. And then I, I felt confident enough, or at least I had enough exposure with people, knew that, that I did websites on the side that, that more people started asking like, Hey, can you do a little website for me for cheap? And so I started doing that and then eventually I took, um, my first, uh, official job in, in the web space and I worked for this really successful entrepreneur guy doing landing page design. Then after a while I was like, Hey, I got enough, um, income for half my income came from my day job and happy income came from the side hustle, but 80% of my time was consumed by the day jobs. So I said, why don’t I stick at this for a little while until my side hustle can pay the bills and then I’ll quit the day job and that’s going to suck to lose half that income.

00:13:21 But I’m gonna free up 80% of my time. And so that’s when I took the leap of faith and it worked out good. I, I, it only took me like, I want to say six weeks, two months to get that income back because I could dedicate my time to my side clients who are now my main clients.

00:13:39   Um, so when you, when you say you got started with like, we just set up a website, right? Like what, what do you mean, like just post this stuff? Like what did that even look like? The social media generation dude. Like I get on Instagram and Facebook. So when people say like they go and like hang out on websites or like and get into stuff, I’m like, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

00:14:00 Well, that’s actually a perfect example because um, social media is part of why I stopped putting all the effort into this, this particular website. So the website was delete Um, I still own the domain, but if you go there, there’s nothing there. It’s just archived right now. Um, but it was a car enthusiast website, so it started as a, as a kind of like a portfolio. So I would go around think, think like fast and furious cars before fast and furious came out. Oh my website came out like a year or two before fast and furious came out. But it was like the same theme of cars. It was the turbo civics and whatever. Yeah. And so I would go around and any time, so I had a couple of friends that, you know, I had one of those kinds of cars and had a couple of friends with those kind of cars. And so we kind of knew other people with those kind of cars. And so when I built this website, I said, hey, can I kind of feature your car?

00:14:43 Like here’s this little sheet that I printed. Can you fill it out? Like what’s the year, make and model of your car and what have you done to it? So I would, I take that and translate it on online and take pictures and, and build little bios of these cars. And so that’s how it started. But then I was like, okay, well before Google analytics came around there, there was this tool called web Elizer. It’s still around, but most people don’t use it anymore. And so I stumbled into that and I saw that I was getting traffic on my website. So that’s when I was like, well, well how do I do something more with this website? And so I started a forum on there and the forum ultimately became what grew the website. Yeah. Answers your question about, you know, how do you hang out on the website?

00:15:25 And so we had a message board and it grew and at some point, so I’m in, I’m in Salt Lake City, Utah. And at one point it became like the biggest car enthusiasts website. There was your new time, there was this other one that we would kind of compete against. Um, so that’s, that’s what it was. It started as a car hobby site and grew into this little community and, and it was really cool to experience. And now I’m, uh, I’m friends with a ton of those people from 20 years ago. I actually made it post like two months ago, joking like, Hey, it’s the 20 year anniversary. Holy Cow. Can you believe it?

00:15:53 That’s, that’s crazy. That’s awesome. So how did that translate then? You said, it sounds like you started like doing just website builds for people, right?

00:16:01 Uh Huh.

00:16:02 And then you got into marketing from there?

00:16:06 Yeah, because I wanted to figure out how to monetize the traffic. So I started getting into, so when I first put in the door and the marketing was, was Google AdSense, like how do I monetize this?

00:16:16 And in what year was that?

00:16:18 Uh, let’s see. I’m going to say around 2002, 2003 kind of-

00:16:23 That’s what like tile, even ty Lopez was getting in at that time. So you’re like early, early stages of that.

00:16:28 Yeah. Yeah. So AdSense was where I got in, uh, you know, a funny story about AdSense at. So when you, you know, the bachelor, like the Sheol. Yeah. So, um, my wife, my wife and I, we’ve been married for 13 years. And, um, when, this was probably like year two or three, we were married and were selling her house and she was watching the bachelor and the first couple years of the bachelor, they, um, wouldn’t tell you who the upcoming bachelor was going to be and tell it like started.

00:17:00 And so there was like this gap between when the one batch war ended and the new one came up. Well, this one year, there is the first year that I started to announce it in advance. So as the one, the final episode closed, they were like, hey, stay tuned or know about the next guy. And so we were watching the bachelor and it was this guy named Andy Baldwin and he was this marine guy. And so I was like, wait a second, they’ve never done that before. And so I started looking up who Andy Balton was and there was like no websites about them. And I go, this guy’s, this guy’s going to be the bachelor, so he’s going to blow up and there’s no websites about him. So that night I stayed, I stayed off like three hours just collecting any information. I could find about Andy Baldwin, any pictures I could find.

00:17:39 And I built Andy and I just slapped AdSense all over it.

00:17:43 Oh my, that’s awesome.

00:17:45   That thing made me a couple thousand bucks, like for three hours’ worth of work and I didn’t do really nothing after that. And so, um, I repeated it the next year. There was a guy after that named Brad Womack. Um, people caught onto my tactic though. And so I had more competitions. I didn’t make as much as next year, but, um, yeah, so AdSense was my foot in the door to understanding monetizing websites and, and so then of course, when you understand how you can monetize website, you get more into marketing and figuring out how do I make it better to monetize it more? Yeah.

00:18:15 Huh. That’s really interesting. And I think that it’s super important for people. So like I come from the Russell Brunson world, a have click funnels where, uh, I would say that it’s much more Internet marketing than most worlds. Um, and so I think what’s interesting is you got your first start in making money online ads and type stuff in, in small margins, right? I mean, you did that three hours of work and you made a couple thousand dollars, but it was pennies that you are being paid per impression, right? I mean, it wasn’t thousands of dollars. Whereas I came in and like I kind of like, I got started on Instagram [inaudible] I was basically told right away, go high ticket, raise your prices, go up, Yada Yada. Right? And so I like started selling digital products for 1000 bucks coaching for five grand. And yeah, don’t get me wrong, we did a really good job with it.

00:19:04 I mean, my parents taught me how to work hard and do quality work, all that growing up on the farm and whatnot. Okay. Then I reached this point where I was like, so this isn’t actually reality, right? Like this is like a hundred percent margins because I’m growing audiences for free because I hacked the algorithm, right. And gotten lucky on timing. Um, 90% margins in business and profit, that’s not normal. Right. And, um, I think that a lot of times people that start where I started have a really hard time scaling businesses because they don’t understand how, um, like normal business works. Like 20, 30% profit margin is really good. Or making penny penny margins, right? Like you were doing. And Penny payouts and scaling that big, um, that’s much more difficult to do. And if you can master that, all of a sudden selling higher ticket, things like that becomes much, much easier. So when did you transition into, I imagine, I mean if you work with the Utah Jazz and shark tank stuff, when did you start transitioning into like higher tickets type stuff?

00:20:06 So the, the first couple of years it was just cool to, so we’re talking like 2007, um, when I officially started my business the first couple of years, it was just cool to be self-employed. So I, you know, I was working at home and I just, honestly, I just kind of took it easy for a couple of years. And, uh, and I mean that and respect the business. Not like I was just sitting around and being a bomb, but like I just, I was a one man show and it was cool. And so after probably probably like two years, three years, I realized, Hey, I have a really unique opportunity here and I should probably do something with it. And so I started looking into scaling and hiring staff. And you, you know, it’s funny as I, I’m not one to tend to be overly impressed or impacted by books or motivational things, but I listened to the four hour work week and there was little snippets of it that I was like, I can do that tomorrow.

00:21:03 And so I already had like one VA, but really what I took away from reading that book was why don’t I have more VA’s? And so I, I started hiring more virtual assistants to [inaudible] start to unload some of my workload so I could focus on, on the more important things and growing. And so I grew for a couple of years and when I first started the, the SEO thing was I charged 200 bucks, 30 bucks a month, and then I, I slowly increase it and I got to like 750 a month. And I remember every time, probably with, in most businesses it’s kind of difficult to increase prices. Like it’s a risk reward thing where yeah, basically want to do it for monetary purposes, but you also hopefully don’t want to do it just to rob your clients. And so I had to justify increasing the prices to so I could sleep comfortably at night.

00:21:53 I didn’t want to just increase the prices. Yeah. So I started thinking, okay, well how much, what can I do to add more value to what we offer in SEO Services? And so I just went through this continual evolution where I would, I would, uh, figure out how to get better results and be more aggressive and be more strategic. And so we slowly increased in and as you increase your business and we have, we start to attract the clients or several thousands of dollars per month. Once you, once you establish yourself, you can drive results, you, you enter into do like an inner circle of, of a high, highly successful businesses. And so I was fortunate enough until last year, I never spent a dollar on advertising my company. So we grew all that time up to, you know, the last 12, 13 years. And, and we got in with a certain, you know, client who introduced us to another client and, and I could probably do like one of those CSI maps where I drag yard necros pins on the, on the board and I could connect like client to client to client and I could probably connect 90% of my clients back from other clients.

00:23:00 And I still have the first two or three clients from 12 years ago. They’re still clients.

00:23:06 That’s amazing. So you seem like a very level headed person. Very like logical and I’ve never met you like said what, 36 hours in, so like, but just in talking to you, you seem like someone that’s more of a logical, analytical type person that can see things clearly. I mean simply from the, just the fact of, Hey, I got to actually justify increasing my prices. Right. Add more value to that and not just [inaudible] just cause for the sake of it, how has that or, and if I’m totally wrong on that analysis, feel free to let me know. But if that being the case, how has that helped you or hindered you, um, in your business and served you to allow you to have consistent results? Appears to me that you’re the type of person that slow steady wins the race and rather than solve problems, you know, do something, create a bunch of problems and solve them. You want to solve them as you go, avoid as much conflict or I should I say problems as you can just run a tight ship with that. Is that an accurate analysis?

00:24:08 Uh, yeah, pretty close. Um, uh, I’d say we deviate. Uh, I deviate from that a little bit in the sense that I’m not opposed to risk or problems, but what helps me proactively minimize those is I’m very process driven. So anytime I do anything, if I do a task and I go, Hey, I’m probably gonna do this again, I’ll stop right there and build a process out of it and so will in our CRM and our project management system. Um, and this kind of ties into your question a moment ago about at what point did you start scaling? So six or seven years ago, um, I went, I had a, uh, a VC group that was interested in buying the company and they just Kinda came to me on solicited.

00:24:48 And, and so I, I ended up turning him down because he conversation was kind of gross and slimy and I didn’t feel comfortable, but I learned a lot in the conversation. And what I learned was that buyers primarily want two things. So the first thing is they want a turnkey business where you can just give him the keys and they can just do their thing. Um, the second thing a buyer wants is they want to know where the fire is so they can pour more fuel on it. They just want to scale it. So because of that, I, I really honed in on, on embracing the concept of documenting processes. So we already had a processes obviously, but like half of them were in my head and half of them were on spreadsheets and just really informal. And so at that point I sat down and I said, I’m going to reproduce every single thing we do in the business and we’re going to put it into our CRM.

00:25:33 And that sucked. Like that was like, oh my God, how long did that take? About a year. Wow. And so that’s on top of running the business. And how big is the business at this point? Like revenue client wise? Um, so I mean, we do seven figures and we average, um, we average 30 to 40 clients. So we don’t do high volume clients. We do high higher value clients and, and just focused on quality campaigns more than, you know, SEO is a funny industry because most of them are turn and burn and they just take on as many clients as they can and then just rip them off, get them to pay you. And there’s another client coming. Yeah. So, um, you know, that’s, that’s how we, we got to scaling. And, and so back to your question about, um, you know, do, do you take on a lot of risks?

00:26:20 And so I, I try to proactively avoid it, but when it happens, I don’t get, I don’t shy away from it. Um, right. Feel. Um, but what’s funny is, you know, you coming from the click funnels world, so you and I go on reverse directions. Yeah. So I just barely started going down to click funnels path. And you know what, it’s, I’m, it’s been an interesting experience because like I said, until last year I hadn’t spent any money on advertising for the company. And when I did start advertising, it was through a funnel process and a, I think funnels, I totally get like the Russell Brunson, you’re, you’re one funnel away mentality, but you got to be in the right industry because I tell you what se on funnel sucks. Like I’ve spent 50 grand and I’m nowhere, I’ve got nothing to show for it. Um, I’ve, I’ve worked with huge agencies, I’ve worked with people that are really credible. And it’s a funny thing, man, like with, with the type of campaigns that we’re trying to pursue, uh, you know, funnels don’t work or they haven’t worked. We haven’t given up. But it’s, it’s

00:27:25 When you say that, do you mean like, SEO to a funnel page versus like to a typical website page or like what do you mean by it’s not working for you in that sense?

00:27:39 So we have ads running. Um, you know, I’m a big fan of paying people to do what they, what they do and, and so I don’t want to interrupt these people that I’m paying. Um, and so when they build out these funnels, they’re doing ads like, no, get your free website audit, which will convert them to a lead. And we give them like, we’re giving away tons of really good value stuff. And later I can give you guys and give your audience a link to, to download some of this stuff for free. We’re giving away like these nine page PDFs where it’s like, here’s your, here’s your roadmap. This is everything the SEO national does. We just packaged it in an abbreviated version for you. And so it’s not like any of that gimmicky stuff. It’s legit stuff, right? So we’re, we’re getting these, so I’ll break it down into two different funnels we’ve had.

00:28:25 So like the first group that did our funnels, um, they, they got a lot of leads, but they weren’t the right type. They were like painters and plumbers and they were business owners. But it’s not like a business owner of a painter or a plumber’s ever going to care to sit down and want to have an SEL conversation. Really. Um, and so they weren’t attracting the right types of business owners. Now this other funnel group that’s doing it, and I’m super impressed with the types of lead magnets they create and how polished the process is, but they’re just having a hard time getting the right leads. So it’s, it’s been funny. Um, it’s been interesting for me to, to walk through this process and be on the other side of, of the conversation where you’re like, hey when are things gonna start kicking out, you know?

00:29:07 Yeah. And so they’re running traffic to a funnel to get leads for your business.

00:29:14   Exactly. Yeah.

00:29:15 Got It. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, it is. I feel like with the click funnels world and, and I don’t know, I mean obviously there are bigger fans of Russell Brunson than I am, but I am a pretty big Russell Brunson fan. I don’t often speak poorly of him and I think that he has a really genuine heart. However, I have spoken often on the fact that there is a, maybe a false hope or a delusional aspect that’s created, not directly because of him, but just with the, the whole culture that goes with a one funnel away type promise. Right. And I think he’s aware of that. Um, I mean he’s not stupid by any means. Probably more aware than I am of it. Um, but what’s interesting to me is that Russell knows what to do so well for himself and is like the master of creating this culture, this brand, this thing around it. And people, because he’s so genuine and passionate and because it works so well for him.

00:30:12 People I feel like, and I’d be curious to know your thoughts on this. I feel like people just go and they forget that there’s other ways to do it that could potentially work better for their business. Right? Like I’ve found them and we have an agency funnel building agency for [inaudible] people that want to sell more digital coaching type products and we don’t target anybody in the click funnels world. And we’ve gotten over 80% or more of our clients clientele simply through networking. Right. And just setting them up. And you know, we hired a Facebook ads person and we were spending hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars to get a lead through the door. And like you said, wasn’t qualified. Now I’m not saying that those don’t work, but why would I stop doing what I’m already doing? Do you feel like maybe in the click funnels world, and I don’t want to single out the click funnels world, any culture like world like that, that people uh, forget that there’s maybe other ways.

00:31:01 Yeah, for sure. I think I 100% agree with everything you just said. Um, what’s funny is that the SEO World, uh, you can kind of say is like the, the old old school mentality I guess compared to some of the, these newer generations of marketers. Yeah. You kind of touched on it, you know, when you said you started in, um, but the, the thing you gotta remember is it’s not a zero sum game, right? Yeah. Yeah. Pay Per Click is working. It doesn’t mean you don’t do SEO. Like those are kind of the, the equal comparable is pay per click and SEO. And so a lot of people, when I have these conversations, they say, well why wouldn’t I do paper clip? Cause it’s faster. Well it is faster. So yes, do it, get some cash flow and then also do SEO because SEO is going to be slower, but it’s gonna bring more later.

00:31:50 And it doesn’t, it’s not always tied to a budget. So every form of online marketing has its pros and cons. And so you’ve got to find the right balance to you. And if all 50 things that you can do work then do all 50, but no, you’re, you’re exactly right. And another good example is, um, I mentioned earlier, Linkedin is my platform of choice. Yeah. Last year probably. Yeah, almost exactly a year ago. Um, you know, I was, I was like most people, I’m LinkedIn where I just had it, my bio on there and let them gather on it and, and, and then they said, why are, why don’t you good? Why don’t I see if I can do something with this? Because when I would post, I’d get more traction than I do on Facebook. And so I really sat down and made a conscious effort to awards doing social influencing on LinkedIn and took a couple months to kind of work out the kinks.

00:32:38 But a while I’d say posting vulnerably and honestly and transparently on LinkedIn and giving away free SEO advice without a little sneaky sales pitch at the end. That probably brought me a hundred to 150 grand and extra business last year.

00:32:38        Ain’t that crazy. What just simple value can do. So you mentioned, um, Linkedin is your platform of choice. Linkedin as much more businessy type of a social platform, at least for now. And I think that that’s where they’re staying for a while. Organic reach seems to be blowing up on there. I have tons of friends that just swear by it and I’m starting to see my Facebook newsfeed full of ads of people pitching me that I should be on LinkedIn. Um, but I guess, mm. I am of the mentality that paid ads work well, I mean they do and I have nothing against them.

00:33:29 Um, I think they probably work better beat it. See more so than B2B. Not always the case, but you know, that is, but I just have this mentality that says you’re not going to find a quality high ticket person through an ad. And that is a rule rather than an exception. There’s always an exception to the rule, but I’m thinking about myself, I cannot remember the last time, if ever I have spent thousands of dollars on something through it, an advertisement. I’ve never booked a free call, gotten on the phone with someone and done it yet. I’ve closed five, 10, 2050 $60,000 deals simply by hitting someone up. And I’ve shelled out 10, 20, $30,000 at a time simply through networking with you know, and referrals. Um, I’d be curious to know you landed the Utah Jazz as a client. Did that come through a paid ad or, I mean, I know the answer, but how did, how did that happen?

00:34:25 Well, you know, it’s funny, you know the answer without me even telling, we haven’t talked about this. So, so for the listeners that this question was not discussed prior to him just asking me.

00:34:34 we have no, we literally have never taught before and we had a two minute conversation before this call.

00:34:38 Yeah. So, no, you’re right. It came through referral. Um, so I got the Utah Jazz through a gentleman who found me on LinkedIn and he, he was shopping around and trying to find an SEO agency for his company who was a security company. They, they, they offer security technology, um, for like, you know, major events and arenas. And so, um, he was shopping around SEO agencies and I was one of the candidates and I came in and chatted and, and, and afterwards we talked after he hired me and he says, you know why we hired your company? Because very few times can you bring somebody in to talk about Internet marketing. And they don’t leave you more confused. [inaudible] says, you didn’t dance around anything. You didn’t try and be fluffy. Um, you told us what work you tell us what didn’t work. Um, so anyways, so I got this, I got this company, his client, and then I had only known them for like,

00:35:37 uh, two weeks. They are only client for two weeks. And he goes, hey, I want to introduce you to, um, can I introduce you to the Utah Jazz? And I go, what? And I go, yeah. And so, um, so he introduced me to this guy,

00:35:53 um, named Darren squires. And Darren says, Hey, uh, I’m the president of the retail division. Um, and we are, there’s like this holiday back story to, to why they are looking to bring an SEO that’ll kind of skip over. But he goes, hey, we’re looking to bring an SEO and um, know I, I was referred to you, let’s chat. And so I went to lunch with him and another gentleman from Utah Jazz and, and same kind of thing. I was just like, here’s what we do and here’s why we’re good at it. And, and answered all the other questions. Like I never talked down about other SEO companies, but if a client or Elliot asked me and says, hey, we got burned before, I’m going to tell him. Yeah. You know, unfortunately it’s part of the industry. And so I think that’s part of the appeal is the honesty. Yeah. So no, you’re right. Came through referral of a referral and that guy has since sent other referrals too.

00:36:40 Yeah. That’s so, it’s so interesting. And do you know who Sam ovens is? 

00:36:44   Yeah, of course.

00:36:45   Yeah. I love Sam. I’m love his mentality. I’m, I’m business. Um, and I’m, one of the things that he says is results speak louder than everything and the person that can make it simplest and clearest wins. Right. Um, and it sounds to me very much like the exact model that you just followed there. I mean, there’s no way when you were at a seven year, seven years in radio wow. Doing your website on the side that you could have went and landed the Utah Jazz as a client. And I feel like people want to go and make this jump and they’re like, man, yeah, I want to leave my nine to five job, but I couldn’t do that because I can’t live in the Utah Jazz as my first client. And it’s like, well, no kidding. The process is at least what it sounds like from you get results, get good, be able to produce consistency, be honest. And then the bigger the client, the simpler it needs to be. Right? Like they don’t need to know the details. They just needs to be like, explain clearly. So talk to me a little bit about the simplicity version of things when it comes to acquiring customers, because I think people, they talked themselves out of sales.

00:37:51 Yeah, you’re totally right. It’s so funny to talk about all these things because a lot of these things I think in my own mind, but it w you, you don’t always have the opportunity to talk to other people that understand it as well. Yeah. And so when you talk about click funnels and the ups and downs, I’m like, yes. Yeah. Josh knows what’s up. So, uh, yeah, you got to put in the work, right? You can’t be an expert less. You’re an expert. And I think the click funnels world, and same thing that you said, I don’t have anything that’s click funnels world. It sometimes works, sometimes it doesn’t. It’s not necessarily for everybody in every industry, but, but it doesn’t mean that it can’t work. Right. But at the same time, the culture that it breeds is exactly what you said. Just sell a ton of crap by any means. Uh, and the, the problem with that is if you get lucky

00:38:37 and you get business, you are not going to have a reputation [inaudible] not going to last. And so like if you look at I back story as the exact opposite, until the last year or so, I’ve never made an effort to promote SEO national. I’ve never made an effort to make me as the face on Linkedin of SEO National. Yeah. But we have established a reputation with the right people. And we don’t have a, we don’t have a huge reputation. We’re not, even though we deal with clients internationally, we are not known internationally, but we are known by the right people. Yeah. And so, yeah, you gotta, you gotta put in the work and establish, um, like I said, you’re not an expert unless you’re an expert. And that takes time.

00:39:25 It really does at time. And, and I think it’s interesting, time can be-

00:39:30 There’s 24 hours in a day, but if one person works eight hours a day and you work 18, you’re gonna burn up that time a lot faster. You know? I mean, uh, I’ve grown managed 5 million followers on, you know, social media. And so people started referring to me as an expert in the click funnels world way before I thought I was an expert at anything, right? They’re like, oh my gosh, you know, you’ve, you’ve gone and you’ve grown 100,000 followers or whatever, you’re an expert. And I’m like, yeah, I did it once. You know, you’re like, I mean like, yeah, I know what I’m doing. But like when I was sharing like, I mean I’m a big documenter, right? I’m a big Gary v Fan in that sense. Not for everything but documentation and work. And so I would just share, you know, share the stuff that we were doing and people just thought I was the coolest thing since sliced bread.

00:40:12 And I’m like, you do realize like all I’m doing is just working, right? Like I’m just doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again. And I’m, that’s the one thing, you know, not to pick on click funnels. And once again, just to clarify and click funnels, click funnels guys is just a software. That’s it, right click funnels will work if you use it, how it’s designed to do and it won’t if you know it doesn’t, I mean obviously there’s a culture and an ideology and you know things around that thought process, but in all reality, they’re selling you a $300 a month software that overall does a pretty good job. I mean, it has its glitches, but I mean overall it’s a pretty good software for the price. I very much enjoy to use it for myself, but anytime that you get into this methodology of like this is the way or well, Russell said, well, grant said, well, Gary said, well, ty said, well, you know, a Damon said it.

00:40:59 That’s when it’s like, okay, well yeah, but you got to look at like the picture as a whole, you know what I mean? Not just one thing or another. But, um, I do want to move on though too, family because this is something that I am actually very curious about. And I want to give a little context around you cause I’m going to ask this selfishly, um, as someone that is, I don’t have a family. So I am, I’m 25 years old. I, um, I have a girlfriend. We’re pretty serious, but I’m not married, no kids. Um, and don’t plan on having them for awhile. But I grew up in a big family, eight kids. I’m the second oldest farm community. You work hard and um, family was everything. And one of the things that I think we’d probably grew up in relatively similar style of financial homes.

00:41:48 We were not, uh, rich by any means. It was paycheck to paycheck, but it certainly wasn’t like, we certainly didn’t know hunger or poor, right? I mean, my parents didn’t have money, but you know, um, middle-class. And so we grew up on a farm. And one of the things that I will always remember about my dad and, um, who my parents were not great with money, but they were amazing when it came to caring about their kids and their faith and what was important. And there was never anything, anything, no amount of money, no amount of fame, no matter anything [inaudible] [inaudible] could have bought him out to be away from his family. Um, unless, you know, like obviously if you needed to pay the bills, I mean he had to do the work, but his family and putting them in, making time for him above any self, you know, selfish desires, he gave up golf, he gave up everything to spend time, every waking moment that he could outside of work with his family.

00:42:37 And for me, I learned just how big of a sacrifice having a child was by watching my parents and watching so many people that choose business over their personal life and over their kids and watch their families fall apart. And I’m like, if I do that, no amount of success. You know, my dad is not going to die with a lot of money. I mean barring some, you know when the lottery type deal and they don’t play. So not going to happen. But I consider my dad one of the most successful people that I know simply because I believe that he knew how to prioritize what was important. But for me, I firmly believe that there are is a way Jew do both [inaudible] be successful and to have a family. I believe that, you know, me as a Christian, that’s biblical. I’m not going to go down the faith route.

00:43:27 But like just in general, I’ve seen it happen before, but I have not really gone in and been able to talk to a lot of people about this. And I look at people like Gary Vaynerchuk and I’m like, dude, you’re awesome. I love you. Don’t get me wrong. Like I’m the guy that Gary Vaynerchuck roasts on the very first clap back of the jets when he rose the Patriots Fan. That’s me, right? Like, I love Gary, but I can’t, can’t support that lifestyle of, and he’s got kids and they never see him. You know what I mean? And I don’t want to judge. It’s not my thing. I don’t talk down to it. How have you figured out how to balance it and what advice would you have for me too? I mean, I, I’m going to get married someday and I want to have kids someday, but the sacrifice that I know that that entails and what you have to give up for that, how do you balance that and how have you done it?

00:44:16 Yeah, so this is actually a topic I really enjoy talking about and, and it, it tends to be really interesting to listeners too. Um, so you said you come from a family of a, I came from a family of seven, so I’m the oldest of seven kids and that, that plays a small into the, the answer because I was able to see and quantify like you always hear that, oh, when you have kids, time goes by fast and, and I’ll agree it does. But when we were growing up, the oldest a seven. So my, my mom had divorced and married two or three times and, and so over that time I have some half brothers and sisters who I didn’t even know the difference between a brother and a half-brother until I was like 20. And my stepbrother asked me and he goes, hey, those were like, those are your half-brothers, right? And I’m like, no, what are you talking about? [inaudible] it was just family. Right, right, right. But over the course of my mom marrying and remarrying, um, that there was a gap. So he goes, me and then two years younger than his brother. Then it skips like 12 years. And then I got two sisters and then three brothers.

00:45:16 And so by the way, what’s funny is my wife through, before my wife and I were married, we were dating, she threw a baby shower for my mom, for my youngest brother. Wow. So, having younger siblings that far down the chain, I was able to bore, distinctly quantify how quickly time goes. And a good example is one time I had my brother, um, over at my house and he was probably about eight and we’re sitting in the backyard and we had one of those little like cheap Walmart pools that he was putting in. And I, I was just sitting there and I like zoned out for a minute looking at him and I was like, you know what, one day, like, like tomorrow, this moment is going to be gone and he’s going to be 18 and he’s not going to come over anymore.

00:46:01 And now he’s 20 the other’s now 20 and so I can vary distinctly compare black and white experiences night and day between when my siblings were a certain age and now my oldest is eight, now my oldest is eight or nine timeframe. So that really helped me put it into perspective. And so I always, I was always kind of in the back of my mind, I was like, ah, you know, I’m a, I’m a family guy who, you know, and even before you got a family you can probably comment and say, yeah, I’m a family guy even though you don’t have one. So, so when my wife and I got married, um, we were married for five years before we had kids and we knew we’d have kids, but we also wanted to enjoy ourselves. And so it was really important for us to travel and just figure things out.

00:46:48 And at the point where I mentioned earlier, um, I quit my day job, part of that consideration was future family like is this, this is a risk. And so to me it was worth it to take that risk before kids and then hopefully figure it out by the time I have kids. And so that was part of the decision when I took that leap. And so for my, my early two, well actually all my twenties, I was just like, I need to grind it out right now cause I don’t want to grind it out when I have kids. And, and that’s not to say that I don’t work. Um, you know, with the exception of the last probably two months, which, which is kind of out of starting to get to in a minute if you want, but with the exception of the last two months, um, I still do like the long days, but here’s the difference.

00:47:35 I stop at five and after 5:00 PM is family time. And I very rarely work weekends anymore unless I have some crazy deadline. Um, so the way I get in my, along my extra hours on my long days is I wake up early and I don’t like to wake up early, but I like my family time later. And so for me, waking up early is the better option than staying up late because when I’m staying up late, I could be playing with my kids. Yeah. But when I wake up early, no, they’re asleep. There’s no way their way. Yeah. So I make a very conscious effort to still, you know, having a business is kind of like having another kid. And so it honestly attention. So the way I balance it is managing my time. So early mornings as part of my routine. But the other part is blocking off time where business can’t interrupt family time.

00:48:23 So like I said, five o’clock our phones shut off. Like you can’t call in after five even if you try. Um, in the mornings when if it, if it’s a sunny day, I want to walk my kids to school, so I block off my calendar. 8:00 AM to 9:00 AM and then also 3:00 PM before pm. So if I have the opportunity to walk my kids to school, I can like, you can not get on my schedule during those hours. So you gotta if you want to balance it, it’s gotta be like one of those things where you pay your bills when we pay your bills, you just pay your bills and that’s part of the game. Right? So with family time, if you want family time, you set aside family time and that it’s part of the game. And so I do agree with you. It is possible. And, and it’s not to say that my method will work for everybody. I do think it is possible.

00:49:08   So what would you say actually, let’s start here. What time do you wake up in the morning, roughly?

00:49:14 04.35.

00:49:16   Gosh. And then so early. Um, so I recently actually like, and within the last two weeks, um, I, I’m big on mindset, super big on mindset actually. And I have studied countless books on it. And one of the things that when it comes to my belief systems and owning, you know, your life and having freedom is I realized that I have to face the dark areas of my mind that I don’t like. And I have to be able to own the things that have control over me. And there’s two things that have control over me, meaning that I will avoid them at all costs.

00:49:47 And that is one waking up early running. And so I’m like, all right, I am committed to this and you know, I have Instagram followers and I have Facebook. So I’m like, if I make a commitment to them and I’m supposed to be this, you know, motivational or not motivational, but inspirational guy, you know, 25 year old kid is gonna follow through. Right. I am not about to be embarrassed. So what did I do? I was like, I’m making a change. I’m going to go do this. So seven, actually today’s Day, eight, uh, eight days ago I made a commitment. I was like, all right, here it goes. And so I normally get up between nine 30 and 10 o’clock in the morning. And what, so what I say I like, I don’t wake up early. I hate the morning. Um, so like seven 30 for me is, you might well ask me to wait, flap

00:50:28 it four 30, you know what I mean? Like my word. So I, I set my alarm for seven o’clock. I’m at a bed at seven 30. I’ve done it for eight days and I get up and what do I do? I walk outside. I put on my running shoes and I go for a run and I’m telling you

00:50:40 the [inaudible] day six [inaudible] this morning were the two hardest days because I was in so much pain. I mean I’m in so, so sore, so sore from it. I, I like what you say when it comes to, you know, you just make those things, you can’t reach them as part of the game. Right. That’s, that’s a choice that you’ve made. That’s a decision you made. There’s no questions about that. And I think that when you have that mentality, just say, well no, that’s there. That’s not an option. Like that’s not an negotiable for me. All of a sudden then it becomes a part of your life and you’re able to follow through with it. But most people set these goals with this thing of like, I’m going to try this. Right. Versus, no, this is just that. And so I liked that you brought that up and say like, no, this is just my non negotiable and you know, this is where I’m at.

00:51:28 What advice though would you give to and entrepreneur, uh, or aspiring entrepreneur that they’ve got kids, maybe they’re, you know, we have, we have a pretty, a pretty good range of 18 20th year old listeners all the way up to like even in the late thirties I’m a of the podcast that actually quite, quite a big audience, a second larger demographic. There’s those mid 30 range and a lot of them have kids and they’re, they’re wanting to start their entrepreneurship journey or they’re just into it and they’re at the beginning where it’s basically like having a job and maybe it’s a little bit more of a cushion than that, but like they’re still in hustle grind mode and they’re trying to balance a family and they’re trying to do this. What would your advice be to them in order to more effectively grow their business? Cause I mean, you, you have, I don’t know whether you admit it or not, but you have some pretty good experience when it comes to business seven figures. I mean, that’s a mental battle to get to that. So what advice do you say to them to say, Hey, yeah, you’re going to have time with your kids? Well, when it’s time to work, here’s what I would recommend.

00:52:26 Yeah. Well first of all, good, good, good on you for doing the whole running thing.

00:52:34 Um, thank you.

00:52:36 And, and that Kinda goes into, in into answering your question. Um, you got to figure out, uh, when those opportunities exist for you to address the things that you want to address. So for you, you said, okay, I’m going to wake up early and I don’t want to wake up early and then you just do it. So I think one of the biggest problems that, that delays people’s success or inhibits their opportunities for success is overthinking it. [inaudible] if you got to wake up early, you got to wake up early and it’s not like, like I said, I don’t like waking up early. Like, I can feel, I can physically feel the bags in my eyes.

00:53:12 Same. Same.  

00:53:13 So you’ve got to figure out. But you know, depending on the listener, if they are working mornings, if the working nights, if they’re working swings, like you got to figure out a routine and a routine routine, no matter if it’s just one or a string, attend, things will make the biggest difference in your ability to execute and, and grow and, and, and take whatever your side hustle is to the next level. So like if your, if you work mornings and you have nights off but you want to work but you want to spend time with your family, then then spend time with your family. Like you gotta take care of yourself personally first before you can move onto the next thing. So get in that family time. But then if your kids go to bed at nine and you’re usually up until midnight, quit watching Netflix. Yeah. And it’s not to say that Netflix is stupid to get in your enjoyment, but you’ve got to choose.

00:53:58 Are you going to watch, well, actually, I’ll give you a story. So, um, couple years ago I had a friend, him and I were sitting in his backyard and he’s seven, eight years older than I am. And he was working manual physical labor, working with the city, doing construction, something like that. And he was complaining about the physical deterioration of doing that type of work and the lack of ability to, you know, how have whatever the finer things in life that he wanted to have. And I was in the infancy of my business. Um, I wasn’t nearly at, you know, the type of clients I service now, but I was, I was happy and I was early twenties and I was successful. [inaudible] and I asked him, I said, well, why don’t you make a sacrifice now? Cause he said something about going to college and, and I said, well, if that’s your thing and you want to go to college, why don’t you bite the bullet now and go to two years?

00:54:56 And it’s Kinda suck to work all day and then go to college at night. But where are you gonna be at in five years or 10 years? And he flat out said, no, I don’t want to do that. And that was the most amazing thing to me that he just blatantly said, no, I don’t want to make progress. And it’s just, it’s a sacrifice. You got to find your window and you got to s every one of us has like a tiny thing that we do that’s a time waster. Whether it’s Netflix, whether it’s just whatever, like there’s something in your life.

00:55:29   Well, why do you think that is? And I don’t want to go down to a huge philosophical debate. We’re wrapping up here soon, but why do you think some people are just willing to change? I mean, like for me, and it sounds like for you too, um, like dude, I just, I didn’t like my life.I was 22, 23 years old. I had a, I had a career job and I had no college education, right? I was a college dropout and I was working at an insurance firm. I wasn’t making great money, but if I would’ve applied myself, um, I mean I could have made six figures, right. And within five or six years of really going and doing that, I was selling insurance and I was like, nope, I just went and do whatever it took. Right. I mean, I just, right out worked 18 hours a day, six days a week. I didn’t have kids, but you know what I mean? Like I just did it. Some people have it and some people don’t. Do you believe that some people just have it and some people don’t? Or what makes you think that some people are just willing to go take a little bit more risk, sacrifice a little bit more and some people aren’t?

00:56:22 I think it’s a, um, I, I definitely do think that some people are born with it. Um, if there’s one thing that I’ve learned, uh, like I’ve been in the last few years have been kind of like the self reflective mode where I’ve been more analytical of, of relationships and why people do things the way that they do. And, and I’ve come to realize that some people are just the way they are. And, um, so I think that’s part of the equation. Um, but if I had to give like a really horrible, like percentage estimate, I, I, that I hope nobody quotes me on later, I’d say that, you know, 10, 20% of people there, they’re just, that’s just the way they are. They’re never going to succeed. Um, and they’re just gonna be stuck in whatever rough they’re in. Now. The other, you know, then there’s like a 5% who are just superstars and then everything in between.

00:57:10 I think there is, there’s a lot of different reasons, but I think everybody in that other, that other bucket has opportunity. So I have this, this, um, good friend that I’ve met recently. I’ll try not to give away any characteristics or lessons later, but, uh, he’s, he’s a really smart guy. He’s really hard worker, but he’s just super gun shy. Um, and he’s got some insecurities going on and everybody has, whether it’s skeletons in the closet or just insecurities, um, I think more people just need to face those.

00:57:43 And you gotta face a man, like you got it. That’s the big thing. And that’s why, I mean for me it was a first and not too long ago. I mean within the past like two, three months, I started just facing the devils in my closet that I was scared to let people know and I was like, why am I scared to let people know this? I got to face these. And I did that. And then that led me to where I’m at now, which is facing the things that have control over my life, my vices of [inaudible], wonderful, comfy, adorable bed that I love so much and my, you know, and not running. I mean, who likes cardio? And if people were just willing to face it, then all of a sudden it wouldn’t have power them over them anymore. And I just don’t understand. I mean, I’m learning more and more. Um, do you think, do you think everybody has the same as a general rule? Do you think that everybody has the ability to go and achieve more?

00:58:30 Yeah, I think everyone has the opportunity. Um, but whether, whether they will or not is another deal. I think the option is there.

00:58:39  You do believe that in a civilized society as a general rule, uh, in America, right? That if someone’s here, they have the ability to go out and create a better life for themselves.

00:58:50 For sure. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, well, you comment, you made an interesting comment that where, um, you know, you wanted to, so as we’re talking about facing those insecurities, what a lot of people, and just like you said, uh, you were nervous about exposing those insecurities to other people. But those are often, I, uh, I almost never, and at this point I can’t think of any off the top ahead hear of anybody that say at the point where they finally face their fears or became more vulnerable and shared their fears almost every time that helped them. Yeah. And that made them more relatable and that attracted a bigger audience or the clients that they wanted to work with. And so you got to realize that people don’t want to do business with like faceless companies.

00:59:39 They want to do business with Damon Burton because they know him. So in being vulnerable and sharing the behind the scenes and becoming relatable, it’s, it helps you and it helps your target audience. So, uh, I think it just boils down to giving it a try. They, I think that people are too shy for one reason or another are insecure for one reason another. And, and there are some times, like the friend I was mentioning, he’ll, he’ll be so insecure about some things and in my mind that, you know, five years ago I would’ve called him out and I would’ve been like, why are you such a, was like [inaudible], but now I try and find that balance where I go, okay, yes, he’s a west, but let’s not call them out about it and let’s be sympathetic and try and work them out of his shell and help him out.

01:00:25 So there’s definitely the opportunity. You just got to figure out what’s holding you back.

01:00:30   Yeah, I think so as well. Well, uh, Damon, it has been a pleasure. I’d like to move to just some rapid fire questions real quick that we do at the end of each interview. Um, and then wrap up with one final question for you if you’re good with that. Sure. Awesome. Uh, so rapid fire questions. You have a business, so I imagine you travel quite a better half traveled,

01:00:50 Aha.

01:00:51 So what’s your favorite airline to travel on?

01:00:52 Um, I’m super biased and I use southwest even though, you know, understandably, a lot of people will say they’re not the most polished airline, but I’m, I’m a huge fan of their rapid rewards program and so we fly free all the time. That’s awesome. I stacked my business credit cards on there, my personal one. And if you get a certain, uh, a certain amount of miles, you also get what’s called companion status, which means it’s free. So my wife’s free every year.

01:01:16   That’s amazing. That’s awesome. Um, when it comes to driving, like are you a sports car fan at all?

01:01:23 Uh, not so much. Obviously. I really wasn’t my earlier twenties. Um, I’m about about refined practicality, so I like Nice cars. Uh, but I don’t, I’m not necessarily gonna go grab the Lamborghini.

01:01:36 So what’s your guilty pleasure then when it comes to, like where would you splurge money on yourself to spoil yourself?

01:01:42 Uh, so at the beginning of the podcast I talked about just super briefly on a pool and cabins. So anything, anytime I can, uh, do something that enhances the opportunity to have more memories with my kids, that’s where I’ll spend money. So obviously I don’t want to spend a ton of money on a pool, but I am willing to spend a lot of money to have those memories from a pool.

01:02:02 So, we have a pool being installed right now. Uh, we bought a cat lake front cabin property about two years ago that we’ve, I’ve been working on on the weekends. Um, so anything that I can enhance in that respect of life, I’ll, I’m more willing to spend more money.

01:02:15  That’s awesome. What do you think is the number one problem in the business world today for newer startup entrepreneurs in their first two or three years of business?

01:02:28 Uh, not trying and, or overthinking. Like you just, just do it. Like quit trying to strategize. It’s like having a kid, like there’s never a perfect time. Like there’s never a perfect time with businesses. Just do the thing you gotta do.

 01:02:41 Do the thing that you gotta do. Um, what’s the biggest obstacle in your life that you’ve had to overcome?

01:02:45 Uh, two years ago I, uh, acquired literally overnight, um, a chronic autoimmune disease. I got food stuck in my throat, which caused a chain reaction in my body. And, um, I have, it’s this whole other podcast we could talk about, but, um, literally overnight it changed the, my, my diet. Um, I lost 30 pounds in six months. Um, I just had to figure it out and readjust and, and, uh, it took me not two years. I, I, I’m, I’m back to normal as much as can be expected with this condition, but that’s been a rough one.

01:03:20 Hmm. Okay. A thing you’re most proud of in life. And then we just have one more.

01:03:23 uh, being where I’m at, I’m, I’m, I’m proud to, to have grown up, grown with the business and balance family with it and have a happy marriage.

01:03:33   That’s awesome. Uh, last question, we ask this to every single person that comes on the podcast and we ended with this question show your fast forward to the end of your life. All your money’s success influenced impacts all gone. Nobody knows who you are. However you get to leave one final message. Every single person that you’ve ever touched or influenced either directly or indirectly that resonates with them or stays with them for the rest of their life. What is that message?

 01:04:02 Mm. Uh, people love you. Yeah. You got, um, you know, the, the, the, well, the world is a funny thing right now, especially with social media. I think we get so detached that, um, even even the people that, you know, you love her, they love you. You don’t get the opportunities to, um, directly display it as much as you used to because everyone’s just scrawling.

01:04:28    Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, uh, Damon, it was a absolute pleasure to have you on here. Thank you so much for coming on my man. You said that you had some free resources and I want to know where people can come to to find you out. I want to link those down in the description. Where can people go to find out more about you and get the resources?

01:04:47 Cool. Yeah, so I’m more about me on the personal side. Daymond I blog about business and also some personal stuff there. Uh, business side, SEO and if you want, if SEL is your thing or you want to learn more, you’d go to SCL, I have a non click baity non trappy legitimate giveaway there with a, a pdf that can of good, you’re heading down the right path. You’re an entrepreneur starting in, into search engine optimization. Um, and I have a book coming out this year on SEL called outranks,

01:05:21   That’d be good.

01:05:22:   Dropping that for people later.

01:05:22 Awesome. Well guys, go check them out. We will link those links down in the description to this podcast. Go get the SEO’s stuff. I will say, um, [inaudible] has taught me a lot about SEO recently and, um, I, I do believe that especially in the Internet marketing world that I live in and that I work in and guys, a lot of you that are listening now probably live in SEO is an unsung, um, secret weapon that if you know how to use it effectively, uh, it makes so much sense why so many people have, can get so much traffic, um, without having to pay outrageous amounts for ads and different things like that and ranking. So check that out. Um, Damon, like I said, thank you so much for coming on here. Hey, final thoughts or anything?

01:06:06 Hey, you been the fastest, uh, fastest intro to podcast friendship I’ve had. So thanks for having me on.

01:06:14 Absolutely. Damian. Looking forward to, uh, continuing our relationship down the road. Guys. Uh, this is The think different theory with Josh Forti, myself and Damon Burton. Um, and we appreciate him coming on here and go check them out. As always, hustle, hustle, God, blessed. Do not be afraid to think different because those of us that think different are going to be the ones that changed the world. They say it every time and I truly believe it. I live by it. Go think different and own it. I love you all and I will see you on the next podcast episode. Take it easy fam. Peace.

01:06:45 Yo, what’s up guys? You’ve been listening to The Think Different Theory with myself, Josh Forti, which I like to call, “A new paradigm of thinking”, and real quick, I got a question for you. Did you like this episode? If you did, I want to ask a huge favor. See, the biggest thing that helps this podcast grow, and that will spread this message of positivity and making the world a better place, is if you leave a review, a rating and subscribe to the podcast. What that does is, it basically tells the platforms that this is out on, that you like my stuff, and that I’m doing something right. So if you could take like three seconds out of your day and subscribe, leave a rating, and a review, I would be forever grateful for you. Also, I want to hear from you. I want to know your feedback, your ideas, and your questions for future episodes. So be sure to hit me up on Instagram in the DM @JoshForti or via email