WHAT IS THIS EPISODE ABOUT?
In this episode, I welcome Kaci Brown to interview me on my own podcast. The idea for this was first put into my head by Matt Maddix, and I decided to try it out by asking people on Facebook if they would be interested in interviewing me. That’s how I found Kaci.
WHY SHOULD I LISTEN?
We’re going to dive deep and I’ll get very vulnerable, emotional, and honest about my past, upbringing, and all the life experiences I’ve gone through to be where I’m at today. Hopefully, this will help you along your own life journey, in achieving your desired goals.
Here are the key topics discussed in this episode:
- Growing up with seven siblings and the greatest perspective shifts (03:45)
- How traveling across the country as a kid helped form a strong foundational work ethic (12:47)
- How his parents taught him extreme personal responsibility (16:56)
- Starting out with a 9 to 5 despite being an entrepreneur at heart (22:39)
- The big shift that redefined success and what life should be about (34:22)
- Josh’s goals, what this part of his life has opened up, and digging deeper (44:22)
- The definition of impact and shifting the way that people believe (55:10)
- The next phase in life after the 14 country tour (01:02:11)
- Planning for the future and avoiding instant gratification (01:08:08)
- Being misunderstood and looking at things from a whole picture perspective (01:11:14)
WHERE CAN I LEARN MORE?
Be sure to follow me on the below platforms:
WHEN DID IT AIR?
October 9, 2019
Be sure to follow me on Instagram @joshforti
You can find the transcripts and more at www.thinkdifferenttheory.com/129
You can find this episode plus all the previous episode here.
Be sure to grab a copy of The Mindshift Playbook here
If you haven’t already, please rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts!
Disclaimer: The Transcript Is Auto-Generated And May Contain Spelling And Grammar Errors
Kaci: 00:00:00 You said entrepreneurship is just a means to an end, it’s not the end. And up until that point, you had identified as an entrepreneur, like the hustle, the hard worker, and this is where you’re starting to kind of prioritize your life, and how an entrepreneur fits into your life and your lifestyle.
Intro: 00:00:22 You are now entering a new paradigm. So, here’s my issue. I wanted to find the answers to life’s biggest questions. Things like, how do I become happy and live with purpose? How do I make more money doing what I love, and what does it mean to be truly successful in all areas of life? My name is Josh Forti, @JoshForti on Instagram, and I ask life’s biggest questions and share the answers with you. My goal is to help you find purpose, happiness, and open your mind to new realms of possibility by helping you think differently about everything you do, know, and understand. On this podcast, we think different, we dream bigger, and we live in a world without limits. This is a new paradigm. Welcome to The Think Different Theory.
Josh: 00:01:06 What’s up guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Think Different Theory. My name is Josh Forti. And, today we have an interview, but I got to say, guys, I’m excited for this, because the interview is actually going to be backward. And what I mean by that is, I don’t know, probably a month or so ago, maybe… maybe a little bit more than that, I asked people on Facebook, I went on my beautiful social media network, and I said, “Hey, I was wondering if anybody would like to come on my podcast and interview me. I had heard about this concept before. Matt Maddix actually was the guy that kind of really put it into my head officially. And he’s like, “Dude, people want to know you.” And, you know, I have produced thousands and thousands of pieces of content on Facebook, and Instagram, and stories and… and all over the place, and now podcast as well.
Josh: 00:01:56 And so, I tell my story through little clips and lenses, but no one has ever just sat down and interviewed me, and allowed me to distribute that out on my own platforms. And so, Kaci came and was like, “Hey, I’d love to do it.” And then a bunch of other people tagged her in it, and said she would be amazing at it. And, I actually, full transparency, don’t know Kaci that well. We’ve met very briefly, and we’re friends on Facebook or whatnot, but I’m really, really looking forward to this because basically, her job is to get as much information about me out of me so that you guys can learn about that, and kind of bring some context around who I am, and what I believe to hopefully kind of understand me a little bit better and… and my belief systems, and what I’m looking to do, and, you know, how we serve and things like that. So, I’m going to bring her on there, and I’m gonna turn it 100% over to her. I have no idea where this is going. I’ve had no time to prepare questions. So without further ado, Kaci, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Kaci: 00:02:52 Hi Josh. And, I am so sorry I’m going to apologize. I am… I’m very, very excited to be here, but I have to give an explanation about my name. It totally looks like Casey, but it’s Kaci.
Josh: 00:03:04 Oh no. Oh gosh. No, this is embarrassing… this is great. Kaci, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Kaci: 00:03:14 It’s totally my fault because before we were talking about the introduction, I probably could have went ahead and taken care of that, but I always explain it’s my mom’s fault. Like I blame everything on my mom, but I’m just seriously teasing. She was so creative. And, I’ve been explaining how to spell it and pronounce it my whole entire life. So, it’s nothing new.
Josh: 00:03:36 Got it. Hey, could you do me a huge favor? Could you just turn the game down on your mic just a hair?
Kaci: 00:03:40 You know, I’ve got kids. And I think they come in here and they play with my dials.
Josh: 00:03:45 There you go. There you go. Hey, that’s better yet I have a set, Oh, I had seven 76 siblings now still alive. And I get it. Everything gets messed up. We kids ruin everything.
Kaci: 00:03:56 Totally. Like, I remember growing up with my dad and he, that was his thing. Like you can’t have anything nice. Like we had broken doors, we had like this was shad carpet from the 70s and paneled walls. And he was just adamant, I am not replacing a dang thing until you guys are all off at college.
Josh: 00:04:14 There you go.
Kaci: 00:04:14 It was true. So all right. So I’m super excited today Josh. because we do have a ton of mutual friends and I, even though you don’t realize it, like a ton of just stuff that we’ve went through in life that have brought us to this point. But what I’m really excited most is just to see like where you are at and the, and from that perspective looking back, because for every rough road that we’ve traveled, you know, we’ve got the scars, we’ve got the experiences, but it ultimately led us to like the here and now.
Kaci: 00:04:51 So looking back from where you are right now, and I listened to some of your podcasts and so I know your heart. I know you’re so, impact-focused and driven on mindset and shifting everyone’s perspective. And thinking different, thinking bigger, but I really like to kind of explore like where were the forks in the road for you? Like if you, the, the podcast really that impacted me the most was the one where you announced this year that you’re selling the company and you’re traveling to 14 countries. And for me, I think that really centers around to how we define success. Like for so long, especially growing up, if you grew up in a large family, I grew up, my mom was from a large family. We had four kids, you know, we were on food stamps, like for everything. Like you have so much of a perspective that you have to kind of shift and use your own lens to view the world. And so I’d really like to, to kind of walk down that path with you. Like where are those big perspective shifts and where you were redefining success at each point in your life? Hmm.
Josh: 00:05:55 Wow, that’s awesome question. I’m still looking forward to, this is going to be so good. I will say the single greatest perspective shift in my life, certainly in, in recent months, uh, and in any form recently would have been the death of Kyle, my brother. there been a lot, I don’t know. I, I think it’s pretty safe for me to say that there has not been a single greater event that has shifted who I am today. and we’re only what, six months past that. So, it’ll be interesting to see how life will continue to evolve from that point. I just had lunch not too long ago with my aunt actually, like three or four days ago. I’m with my aunt, uh, and my cousin as they were out here, uh, in Nebraska. And, no, we were talking about it. This was the first real tragedy in our family for many generations.
Josh: 00:06:51 I’m mean, obviously people die and you know, of old age and you know, sickness and when they’re older, but this was, you know, a freak accident, and was not expected in, in any format. so I would say that, and I’m, I’m just going to kind of lay out maybe the big ones and then let you dive in further, if that’s okay. Yeah. okay. I would say so. I would say that one, I would say the, uh, another one would have been, going on two years now. We’re not quite there yet. but coming up on two years of my kind of success depression or like my big fallout of, where I hit rock bottom. and that was for me where I went from making, you know, 50, $60,000 a month. I was a solo act. you know, no team, no nothing to, you know, getting ready to move to 35th floor apartment overlooking the Chicago bears stadium to then, you know, like a couple of weeks later canceling all my clients and going to, to zero or, you know, less than a couple of thousand dollars a month, you know, making, I think that was a huge, huge shift as well.
Josh: 00:07:54 ah, the single greatest person outside of my family that has shaped who I am today was, my old boss, my last boss that I had, her name was Cheryl Lee. And a big shout out to her, she really gotten me out of my farm boy scarcity mindset mentality and showed me that entrepreneurship was a legitimate path early on. I, you know, I’ve always been an entrepreneur, I’ve always wanted to own my own business, but she broke me out of the mold of thinking that I had thought of, you know, that you had to work, pay your dues, you know, do all that. And so that was a huge moment. I worked for her for about two years and that was a huge, huge moment, uh, leaving her and going into entrepreneurship full time, quitting my job. We stayed close friends for awhile and we still are friends.
Josh: 00:08:49 but I would say that going into entrepreneurship, that was a very defining moment as well. and then, uh, I think a unique perspective and, and I’m jumping through hoops and things because, you know, I want to focus on maybe more of the big ones was I was homeschooled my whole life. I grew up with a family with eight kids. I’m the second oldest. a little backstory that maybe a lot of people don’t know about me. And hopefully mom, dad, hopefully this is okay to share. my, my mom was actually married and divorced, before she became a Christian and before she met my dad. So I’m my dad’s oldest son and then my older brother Kyle, w still blood to me. and my, you know, my dad never treated him any differently. I mean, we was brothers on brothers and you know, you son and father, he even took, you know, his last name.
Josh: 00:09:37 but my mom was married into force before that. And so, you know, for me, I was born in Wisconsin at age one. I moved to Los Angeles at age one. I was born at zero, I guess at age one. We moved to the suburbs of Los Angeles, California, where we spent 10 years. So I grew up in a more of a city environment but still pretty conservatively. But at age 11, in fact, on the, over my 11th birthday, my parents, my dad quit his job, my parents sold the house and my dad packed everything that we owned into the back of a semi truck and a motor home. And we drove across country with no destination and we ended up in Indiana. and we were headed to Vermont. That was kind of the kind of the rough idea. We didn’t really know where, but we ended up in or in Indiana, my parents found a church there.
Josh: 00:10:20 And so I think, you know, driving across country when you’re 11 years old with, you know, seven siblings and not really knowing where you’re going and doing at 11 years old is the most exciting thing ever. But that hugely, hugely shaped who I was because where we ended up, he was in a farm town where my nearest neighbor was a half a mile away. And, you know, that’s a culture shock, probably more so for Kyle than it was me at that age. But, you know, I don’t have any friends longer than maybe like five or six years old that I am friends for five or six years that I’m like actually still friends with. And I don’t remember a single person in my childhood really before age 11 back in California except for like a couple of my babysitters. Like that’s it. And so, I would say that one of the things maybe to talk about or to maybe touch on is friendships.
Josh: 00:11:13 my best friend in the whole entire world. I mean, the person that like means the most to me in my whole life, like I’ve known for four years, you know, four or five years. So like not too terribly long. So I would say that those were the big defining moments. I’ve had some, some close calls and you know, dumb things. I speed on motorcycles and hang out with some bad crowds. But those I would say are the big defining moments here on this earth that have, it kind of shaped my viewpoints, and are like big forks in the road per se.
Kaci: 00:11:42 That is awesome. And I don’t know if you’ve caught that by, you were kind of explaining things, but so I was just massively taking notes, that driving cross country and picking up your family to the unknown. It’s a direct parallel and to almost what you’re doing right now and selling your business and traveling the world. So do you think that like at that point in time, it kind of like, even though the, the foundation of, of the farm and, and I’d like to really dive deeper in there because I really do think there are some really strong foundational work ethic. that is just part of the entrepreneur’s spirit that is with within us. that does come from, you know, just hard work. and then our kind of eyes start to be open to where okay, we don’t know. It doesn’t, it’s not always hard working harder. Like there’s a better way to do it, but it seems like at that point and that young of an age that the permission to leave.
Josh: 00:12:47 Yeah. so my dad, when, when we were, when I was young, Oh, when we lived in California, my uncle owns a company out there. I’m very successful, you know. Whew. Huge. they have factories in China and whatever, a toy company, man, I’m going to get super personal here. I had to be careful because there are other people in my family involved and I do want to respect their privacy and things that have gone on. there is a lot of wealth on my dad’s side of the family that is not [inaudible] my direct family. We can’t go down the reasons why I have that for personal reasons, but success in great folds on my dad’s side of the family, outside of, you know, him. my dad has always been a man of character and a man that follows his beliefs more than anything else.
Josh: 00:13:38 And my mom the same way ever since I’ve, you know, known them, you know, not past lives. Maybe, but, so, or pass before I was born, when we left, my dad just had this vision and this dream to go start his own family business and to get out of California and get away from it. All my dad’s a prophet, like that’s his mentality and the, there’s profits and teachers and mercies and things like that. That’s my dad. My dad tends to be very black and white tends to see, I don’t want to say the negative side of the world, but just tends to see reality for what it is and is not always the most optimistic person about everything. but is very much just in that direction. So for me, going across country, I didn’t realize it at the time, but where I see big ties is that my dad wanted to go create something, even though it might not have made the most logical financial sense to a lot of people.
Josh: 00:14:34 He had a good job in California and working for his brother. he went and did that. And so for me, the permission to go and fail and the permission to go and learn. And the fact that my dad’s somehow some way, I mean my was a stay at home mom and that’s not my mom’s a warrior Saint. She homeschooled eight kids. Like she had the hardest job of anyone. But like, you know, my dad was the financial provider. He always figured out a way to make it work. Even when we were dead broke back up against the wall, he figured it out. And I think seeing that allowed me to realize the troop tential of that, that even when things get bad, like you, you’re smart. Like you have the ability to figure things out. And so, you know, like going and doing that I think has allowed me to go and, maybe take some of the risks that I have and not be so conventional.
Josh: 00:15:26 I think the other thing that’s important there was my uncle’s company was a privately held company and it was a family business. My dad has never worked since I’ve met. Like knowing what’s going on as far as work is concerned, has never been worked for like the corporate system. My dad is a truck driver, and he’s an owner operator, so he has his own business. I mean, this is only an employee, but he’s an independent contractor with companies. And so, you know, this idea of bosses and like things like that. Thankfully my dad has been blessed with my dad’s a very, very, very, very, very hard worker. He is the best at what he does. He is called to fix other people’s problems and you know, this stuff. And so he’s had a lot of flexibility in schedule and that seeing that, that he was just willing to pick up everything, go across the country, take his family there [inaudible] kind of blindly, I mean like really without any understanding of what was going to happen, I think has allowed me to do the same.
Kaci: 00:16:18 Yeah, I was gonna say, I noticed also that in just hearing you talk about that like, and we don’t know each other that that, well I’ve only listened to a few podcasts, but like it just come, uh, comes across that there is so much personal responsibility and ownership over the decisions of whether it is, you know, bold, strategic, you know, entrepreneur decisions or just complete crazy leaps of faith. Like there’s a personal responsibility there that you completely own. And I’d like to kind of like, where did that start? Where do you think that started?
Josh: 00:16:56 The farm? it came from my parents for sure. I want to preface this by saying, and I think that we’ll probably get into this in further detail too, and I just said this on another podcast that I did right before this. If there is one thing that I know without a shadow of a doubt forever is that both of my parents love the debt, love me to pieces, love me to death. And there, there is literally nothing that I could possibly do to make them not love me. I could mess up, I could do terrible things. And the first thing out of my dad’s mouth would be first and foremost, are you okay? No matter what, no matter what they did, are you okay? It would be the very first thing. And then as soon as it’d be after that, he’d be like, all right, I love you and I’m gonna help you figure it out.
Josh: 00:17:39 Even if he knows I was in the wrong, he wouldn’t, he’s going to tell me how it is going to tell me I’m wrong, but he’s going to be there for me. And knowing that gave me so much respect for my parents. And equally so with my right, like same thing. Yeah. I truly believe that my parents had the best intentions for me. So because of that and because I knew that my parents had the best intentions, even when I disagreed with them. And even when I look back now at things where I’m like, why did you do that? I look at that from the perspective of they actually did want the, what was best for me. It might not have been the right thing to do. It might not have made any sense, but they were trying to do what was best. So when it comes to personal responsibility and it comes to ownership, I believed my parents were inherently good people and I believe that they really truly did want the best for me and that they were trying the very, very, very best that they knew how.
Josh: 00:18:23 So with that, the number one thing that they preached and that was, you know, about them was no, your responsibility for your, you know, you’re responsible. It’s not somebody else’s fault. Like you take ownership for what you do. If you want something, go out and get it. Now their version of that was you work your face off and which we, you know, I did. I mean I grew up on a farm, 22 acres. I, my neighbor that I worked for farms 2000 acres. so like I’ve bailed thousands and thousands of bales of hay. But like this personal responsibility was you’ve been blessed with two hands and two eyes and two ears and the ability to think and you come from, you know, we didn’t have a lot of money growing up, but what we did have was the ability to go out there and take care of things and do things.
Josh: 00:19:05 And the one thing that I, I am so forever grateful and there’s certain things that like I know that like when I parent I’m like [inaudible] I must make sure to do that, that my parents preach was you take care of your things. Even if there’s not a lot of them, even if they’re not worth a whole lot, you take care of it. And from my first truck that I paid, I think was $3,500 for it, right? Like I took such good care of that and my mom and my dad, like my mom’s car right now has 300,000 miles on it, 300,000 and as, because my dad and my mom, like, they take such good care of their things and they’re not shiny, fancy, right? Like they’re not that. But all the sudden that gives you the sense of ownership that gives you this sense of like, Hey, this is mine.
Josh: 00:19:47 I’m gonna take care of it. I’m going to be responsible for that because I’ve been trusted by that. And growing up religious and growing up Christian like you’re responsible and you’re thankful for what God gave you. So if I have a 1998 1500 Chevy pickup truck with rusted out floorboards, I’m going to take care of that because how I take care of that is how I’m gonna take care of my Lamborghini someday. Right. And so it’s like that, that draw. So like how you do one thing is how you do everything. You own it. And you take personal responsibility for everything that you do. And when it’s somebody else’s fault, yeah, it might be their fault, but how you react is your responsibility. And my parents just drove that into my head of like, yeah, it might be somebody else’s fault, but that doesn’t like don’t return evil for evil or insult for insult.
Josh: 00:20:30 If they yell, you don’t yell back, take the beggar would be the bigger man. Right. You know, take the high road. And so I think that that personality of like ownership, extreme ownership and extreme personal responsibility says if somebody’s like, if it’s been done once before by somebody else, you can do it too, right? Like, and even if it been you, you can set the limits of what’s possible. If you just take ownership and you just [inaudible] own it and you say that I will dictate what with God’s help, like I will dictate the outcome of my life. And I watched that over and over and over again with my parents and how they chose to live. I’m with that. So I think that that deep sense comes from living on the farm. And then at a very young age, gave us responsibility. You know, when I was 11 years old, even back at 10 years old, back before we moved out to Indiana, I had a, uh, I wanted to do a lemonade stand.
Josh: 00:21:16 Guess what? My parents didn’t give me money for the lemonade stand. They said, we’ll loan you the money. And then you’ll buy the supplies and then you’ll pay us back and then you can keep the profits and that mentality of like, Oh, okay, if I want something, I’m not going to go to my parents and ask for it. I’m going to say, Hey, if I can’t get it, like let me go and do this. When we wanted goats or we wanted pigs, or we wanted like any of the animals that we had on the farm, my mom and dad were like, great, how are you going to pay for that? [inaudible] probably it came from the fact that they didn’t have the money for it and they would’ve liked to do more, but does that lack of that [inaudible] them using that as a learning lesson to say, fine, you want it fine. You can have it. You can do whatever you want in life, but go work for it and go make it your own and don’t expect somebody else to give it to you. That like made me so much of who I am today in entrepreneurship.
Kaci: 00:22:00 That’s awesome. just the fact and knowing that at least some of my parenting skills are working out and turning out for the best. we have a dog because of that right there. our son wanted a dog and I said, okay, how are you going to pay for it? So, and it is, it’s like nose to the grind, you know, you figure out a way. but that’s a skill set that’s going to carry you forward. And so, you know, you mentioned your first business in the lemonade stand and, and then growing up on the farm, did you always know that you were going to be an entrepreneur or did you try the non defined for a little while before setting out on your own?
Josh: 00:22:39 So I always knew that I was going to be a business owner. I’m certainly not in the aspect that I am today. but I’ve had the entrepreneurship gene ever since I can possibly remember. I was going to be rich and I was going to be famous. And when I was very, very young, I thought that you just got to name your family’s last name, whatever you wanted. So my family’s last name was, I was going to be Josh to star. I mean like, so I mean I’ve been egotistical, you know, how to hate it, like full of myself from a very young age. And thankfully I’ve matured a lot with that. But like I’ve always been, and I think my parents did a very good job of instilling a lot of confidence. Gary Vaynerchuk talks about that too. Like, Oh, it’s so much of my success to my parents.
Josh: 00:23:19 So much of it. but I always knew I was gonna be an entrepreneur. I didn’t caught an entrepreneur back then. It was just a business owner, but you know, sexy terms, we kind of make their way around. But I did that being said though, I did work at a nine to five, my, so my first job and once again, hard work ethic, my first job, real job, like I had some part time jobs and you know, working at some hotel stuff wherever. But my first full real time job out of high was I worked at a farm or an animal factory, uh, where we made a animal feed for animals and grainery and I work night shift and I worked 40 hours a week there. And while trying to start my business on the side, I work 80, 90 hours a week for two years, right?
Josh: 00:24:00 Like every single day. And, worked in environments. I’m not going to go into that, but like, just, I learned so much about business on how it shouldn’t be run by the fact that I was, you know, 18 years old, working 40 hours a week running night shift by myself, way against OSHA laws, but like, you know, it was making $8 an hour and the, the owner of the company claimed to be a Christian and I just didn’t understand that. And I remember talking to my mom, if I ever own a company, I will not treat my employees like that. Right. And I have no animosity or hatred towards him whatsoever. I’m just, you know, context for that. And so, I tried that. I got out of that. I actually started college. I was told that, you know, without college I was going to fail and I didn’t believe it.
Josh: 00:24:38 But then, okay, I guess a critical turning point in my life. Another one fork in the road type moment. I started a company with my, uh, business partner. My neighbor, this was right out of high school while I was working at this greenery and it was farming business. We, we went and, we made hay for, for people and uh, uh, very niche, a lot of smaller fields that a lot of the bigger equipment couldn’t get into. And so, we work our butts off. I’m telling you, I, I’ve still to this day, I have not met, met someone that worked harder during that summer than I have. Like I’ve met a lot of people, like my mom and my dad and my friends were legitimately concerned for my health. I slept three hours a night, legitimately three hours a night, like not fake, like, like legit, three to four hours a night for like nine months straight.
Josh: 00:25:22 As we were doing this. and well, long story short on that, the company went out of business because my business partner’s wife, Oh, we didn’t have any paperwork. We were just, you took it people’s word, right? Like it was the farm business partner’s wife, divorced him, sold all the equipment, sold like everything and just like wiped us out, like wiped us out clean. And so at that moment, I mean I cried and cried and cried like I would just, I, my whole life work had gone into this and it was gone, like literally in a matter of 48 hours. It just, my whole life turned around. And so I chose to go down the traditional route of going to college and I started down that path and right away I knew it was a terrible decision. but I tried to follow through. I really, really did.
Josh: 00:26:05 And I remember I’ll never forget the day that I quit college. aye. You looked at my professor and we were talking about, uh, business and what we took to be successful. And he said, the reason that you all are all here today is because you want to be successful in life and you know you need a degree to do that. And I looked at him and I was like, I don’t like, I don’t believe that. And I told him that. And so we went back and forth and we argued all the time anyway. But I looked at him dead in the eye and I said, I don’t believe that you need a business to be success. I mean a degree to be successful. And he said, you really don’t believe that? I said no. And he said, then why are you here? And so me being the, you know, can’t beat, I’m not going to be, you know, done like that.
Josh: 00:26:45 Said, you know what? You’re right. I’m done. I’m going to go figure it out. I’m going to go farm and I make $1 million and I [inaudible] shut up. I threw my stuff in my backpack. I walked down to the bursar’s office, I quit. I didn’t get my refund or my deposits back like nothing. I just quit. And I went and figured it out from there. And so that led me down the path to a couple like side hustle jobs. I was a server at olive garden for I think about nine months. I did really well there, but it was a serving job. There’s not a whole lot of no room to move up. And then my last job would have been the closest thing to a nine to five job that I had, which would have been, the insurance job, uh, with Cheryl and she was my boss.
Josh: 00:27:17 She gave me an opportunity, that I should not have gotten. I was friends with her kids and you know, because of, you know, because of that and, and Anna, if you’re listening, I mean thank you tremendously for, you know, for that and her, that’s her daughter. And that would’ve been the closest thing to a nine to five, but it wasn’t a traditional nine to five job. I sold life and health insurance at 21 years old. she paid for, you know, all my classes for me to get licensed and I worked my tail off for her. But like, that’s what taught me a lot of grit in sales and in business and structure. And she taught me a lot about business that I know today. So, I expected to be in that job longer than I was. I expected to probably be there for three or five years because I thought that I needed hundreds of thousands of dollars saved up to start my own company or a loan.
Josh: 00:28:04 and I was always taught that debt was bad, but I always knew deep down inside, like, I’m going to own my own business. I thought it was because I wanted to be rich, but looking back now, it was because I was a terrible employee and I couldn’t stand to be told what to do. And, I think that, that, you know, I would, I say this all the time now, I’d rather be broken homeless and go back and get a job and, and work for someone that I like, don’t, don’t believe in who they are, right? Like I’m not against jobs, but like I couldn’t work for corporate ever and for that reason. And so, I would say that I’ve always been an entrepreneur at heart. I mean, I, I 16, 17 years old, I had hundreds of chickens [inaudible] paid for by myself.
Josh: 00:28:43 We butchered some of them. We had meat, chickens, all grass fed, organic, like really healthy. We had a, like I had eggs, I paid for it all. Like I figured out a way and I, you know, so like this whole entrepreneur money responsibility thing was my ticket to freedom because I always assumed wrongly. But you know how I grew up thinking like if I had money, I had freedom and money was the key to happiness. Money was the key to getting out of what it was, not when my parents taught me. But financial stress and what you see, there’s a whole lot more important than what you hear. And so my parents, you know, they weren’t great with money. They were amazing with character. They were amazing and parenting and amazing in so many different areas. But there was a lot of stress that went with money.
Josh: 00:29:21 And so for me, that was the most important thing. And so I was like, I am not working for the man. I’m not working 40 hours a week and checking out. I will work 900 hours a week if that was possible, if that meant that I get to be free. And so I’ve always had that kind of motivational gene in me.
Kaci: 00:29:35 That’s awesome. And congratulations like you had your epiphany like this is not for me. I’m few years ahead of me. I went to school for marketing and then continue to get my MBA and did not quit until I had my first like full on fortune 500 corporate job and that was like I’m not, and it was literally like how you explained like I am not going to manage people this way. I’m not going to treat people this way. You should truly love what you do and it shouldn’t be, you know, walking on eggshells or just like taking that bullying approach to people, which I feel like there’s a lot of corporate culture, not all, but can we kind of go back to that moment and talk about, because like I really felt like that was my first time quitting anything in my entire life and that was just, just quitting in itself was hard. Did you struggle with making that decision or was just the freedom on the other side and that realization knowing like this is just not for me? Like did that counterbalance it?
Josh: 00:30:38 the decision was not difficult from that perspective. The decision was a very difficult because of the person I was quitting. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Cheryl and what Cheryl did for my life. Obviously I worked hard and I, you know, take credit for working hard, great. But sheep did so much for me and taught me so much. I felt that I did not fully repair [inaudible] what she had done for me. She, she bet on me thinking that I was probably going to be around for awhile and invested a lot into me. And while, you know, we left on good terms and I’ve, you know, been over there and friends and you know, like we’ve even done business together afterwards.
Josh: 00:31:28 I was at a time in my life when I was figuring out who I was and I did not handle, I mean there’s family dynamic that I was friends with her daughters, I was friends with her, I was friends with their family. We had done so much stuff together. She had done so much for me and I, I did feel bad leaving when I did, but I didn’t show it because like, and it was hard and she knew and I told her that, but like to the extent that it was because I was wrapped up in trying to figure out myself, I was going through a breakup at the time. I liked it. I mean, there’s just so many things that played into that. And so for me, quitting wasn’t hard because I was quitting a job because quite frankly, I was like, man, I don’t know whatever.
Josh: 00:32:10 Right? I got quit before, but I hate disappointing people and I know that Cheryl had invested so much into me, she was like a second mother to me almost. You know what I mean? And like her best advice to me was, Josh, don’t quit because you’re running away from something quit because you’re running towards something. And that was incredibly freeing and powerful to me because I wasn’t running away from something. It might’ve seemed like it at the time, but I was running towards figuring myself out and freedom and having the flexibility of all that.
Kaci: 00:32:37 That’s incredible advice. Do you find yourself kind of going back to that and future decisions?
Josh: 00:32:44 Yeah, big time. Not always. I mean, there are some times when it’s like, you know, when things are toxic or you know, or things like that, but like the decision to sell the company that that’s some advice that I thought about for a long time. Right. And you know, when we started building the company like I, you know, truth be told, aye had no desire to own an agency, but I wanted to learn the discipline and what went into building an agency. And so for me, like when I did go to sell the company, I was like, all right, Josh, are you, are you doing this for the right reasons? And I, and I truly feel like it was, you know, my brother dying and wanting to travel and the perspective shift. But you know, that’s something I thought about a lot. Whenever I quit something and I’ve pivoted many, many times, right? is, am I quitting because it’s hard. Am I quitting because I don’t like it anymore or I’m quitting or am I quitting because there’s actually something else that I feel called to do that’s more important.
Kaci: 00:33:39 I love that. And that’s actually a perfect segue into what I wanted to talk to you about. That particular episode that I was telling you about where you were sharing the sale of the company and, and traveling around. There was a couple of quotes that really stood out to me. you said entrepreneurship is just a means to an end. It’s not the end. And up until that point you had identified as an entrepreneur, like the hustle, the hard worker, and this is where you’re starting to kind of prioritize your life. and what, how an entrepreneur fits into your life and your lifestyle. So was there a big kind of shift in redefining success and what you really wanted out of the next years in your life?
Josh: 00:34:22 Yeah, huge. growing up I grew up with a lot of insecurity. I was very, very insecure, which is probably why I was over the top friendly with people and wanted everybody to like me. In fact, I would venture to say it was a large majority of that, but I mean insecurity showed through, especially to the older people, like, you know, there’s wisdom and age for sure. entrepreneurship was the path that most of my friends weren’t taking. I didn’t know anybody that was an entrepreneur in my life, like growing up, like my uncle was, but I was pretty disconnected. We moved away when I was young, right. and business owner, rich person had a very negative connotation around it, whereas entreprenuer was this new vehicle and it didn’t. And I killed it. Like I had success early on. And when you are 19 2021 years old, while 2122 and have 20,000 followers on Instagram [inaudible] you’re on top of the world.
Josh: 00:35:21 Right. And that was when Instagram was just becoming a thing and then 100,000 and then I could quit my job and then I worked for myself and then I spoke on my first stage. Right. Like my identity was an entrepreneur because everything else in life, people had told me, no, no, no, you’re not gonna make it. I mean, I was told literally by, you know, people directly to my face if you are not gonna make it like your, you know, if you go into entrepreneurship without a degree, like blah, blah, blah. And I proved them all wrong. I was told by like family members of close family friends that you can’t really be helping that many business owners. You don’t really know what you’re doing in business. When I first got started and every time I would just come back to them and be like, 200,000 followers, 500,000 followers, a couple hundred thousand done, enjoy making $50,000 a year for the rest of your life.
Josh: 00:36:07 I mean, like that was my mentality, right? It was me versus them. It was, I will do anything and everything that I can, mind you, I didn’t wish negative on them. I wanted them to stay right where they were for the rest of their life so that they could see that the choices that they were making, I didn’t, because my identity was wrapped up in money and success is worldly version of it. So I didn’t see the rest of it. I just constantly was told no. I just constantly was told that the way I wanted to do things, the who I was, the way I acted was wrong or it wasn’t gonna make it in life and that I couldn’t just be myself. And so for me, getting into this whole entrepreneurship game, like I was like, this is me right? Like, I’m winning and I’m continuing to win it.
Josh: 00:36:48 And like I can go back and I mean like I have the ability to flaunt a lot of things. I don’t now, but I used to like, I was that person at anytime when I would go back and visit people, like they would tell me anything about their life and I’d be like, yeah, but I’ve done this. Yeah, but I’ve done this. That was my identity. So [inaudible] and if you study human psychology and like mindset and you know how we make decisions, like everything is done out of our identity. So when your identity is wrapped up in money and it’s success, when you make a lot of money, you feel great. And when you lose a lot of money, you feel like crap. But I did a really good job of presenting on social media exactly what I wanted people to see. So then I go through a huge life shift.
Josh: 00:37:29 I, I, you know, hit rock bottom with 50 cent, you know, 50 $60,000 a month to bottom, but I’m still an entrepreneur. Like, that’s what I still identified as it was an entrepreneur shifted. It was conscious capitalism. It was entrepreneur on purpose, but I was still a business owner and family was secondary. Not that I thought family was less important, but for me, I didn’t want a family. I didn’t want kids. I was like, they’ll come someday after I’m super rich, let me get rich first and then I’ll go. Cause I understood the sacrifice that went into that. However, in February of this year, I was damning my brother Kyle on Instagram and we were going back and forth. And Kyle was, Kyle and I, we’re not super close in the sense of that we didn’t hang out all the time, but there was probably no single human that I trusted more than Kyle or really looked up to as someone that broke the mold of our family and still had a great mutual respect for so many people.
Josh: 00:38:26 And, I remember like, this was like just a couple of weeks before he passed. he was like, you know, I’ve really been thinking a lot about like, how much is enough? And he goes, I think that if I could just make, and I don’t have exact numbers, he said, you know, 200 to $250,000 a year. I think things like, I think that’s all I need in life. And then he goes, I then after that he goes, I just want to be a stay at home dad. I want to like build my family. I want to, you know, do all that and like focus on things that actually matter. And I was like, I get that, I get that. Like things actually matter. But also I’m like, Whoa, like this is huge. Like this is coming from him. And like for the first time it like clicked into me.
Josh: 00:39:08 Like, here’s someone that, I mean my brother had clients like Paul Ryan, you know, just be here, the house, you know, and like new Mike Pence was very, very influential in his space and it was very, very well respected by both Democrats and Republicans alike. Here’s the dude that’s like, this is all I need and this is what’s important to me in life. And I was like, man, I guess I could be happy on $250,000 a year if I had that. Like that mindset. But in my head I’m like, I got to make millions, millions, millions, millions. And so we went and we had planned to go to South by Southwest together down in Texas [inaudible] [inaudible] he died like two weeks before that. So like that was going to be our next meetup. We were going to talk all about that, talk about like what was important and we like we had gone back and forth about like, Hey, like what’s really, really important in life and like your identity and who you are, what you believe.
Josh: 00:39:55 And he’s like, I just want to study truth and I want to study consciousness. And recently like within the past, like three or four months before that, and I’m going to be open about this as an interview about me, like I had had a psychedelic experience, which it’s not for everybody, but w you know, if you want to dive into that, we can leave that up to you. But like to me that really started to open up my mind that there was a God, like I’m a Christian, but like that God was much more prevalent in our lives and I realized that spirituality and other realms in other realities in other worlds, like those are all very, very real things. And so like I had that in Kyle and I were talking about that and we talked about that heavily and you know all that.
Josh: 00:40:29 And then I’m walking out the door on a Sunday night to go have dinner with my girlfriend and my mom calls me right. And you know, you get that phone call and it like just [inaudible] Jack you up like, you know, nothing else. So like that moment that shift for me, like going in the absolutely incredible support, an outcry from a community of people that came to support Kyle like thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of people and messages and hundreds of thousands of dollars raised to cover expenses for hope and take care of max, his son and the baby on the way. Like all of that. I was like, okay, Kyle knew something was important that clearly I did not understand because I know that there are many people that are really good in business that when that would happen that would not happen. Like if they were to die, that would not happen even though they’ve influenced millions. And so I looked at that and I’m like something like I’m off somewhere and I’ve got to figure out where I’m off and my of
Josh: 00:41:34 just putting little things behind me with my family and like trivial things and like I’ve had therapy since then and my brother and I have gone to counseling. Like I mean like these are, you know, things like to, to make things right and go back and fix those things. A fundamental shift at the core and I, you know, watching a Ty Lopez interview is like, Hey adults change typically through mass trauma. And I wouldn’t even consider myself a full grown at all. I’m 25 right? I got a long time to live. But like that fundamentally shook who I was at the core and I, that was the day that I was no longer just an entrepreneur and that was the day when all the sudden business seemed pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things when it came to treating people with respect, knowing truth, figuring out the afterlife, you know, like I’m doing all those things. And I, that moment, that was when I was like, I’ve got to go figure this out.
Kaci: 00:42:26 I think that you’re actually really, really right. I’ve, I went through several shifts myself and tragedy and shock and just coming out on the other side, like you can never go back. [inaudible] it’s, you see the world differently and it, it’s amazing how just this path and you sharing your story brings back to another quote that I had pulled, from how you were sharing. Just, you know, you are shit in perspective that you said you’re shifting to a perspective where you are a human being. I have more purpose and potential in life than just building a business. And I don’t know if, if you’re familiar with the works of Viktor Frankl, but Victor Frankl was a Holocaust survivor and he survived. His family did not, and he went on to to just share the research and, and, you know, influence millions just with that shift in perspective because so many people asked him, you know, how did you make it through?
Kaci: 00:43:33 How did you survive? And it’s, it’s like internally we have this resourcefulness, but at the same time [inaudible] outer shift of, it’s not really just about me. Like when you have a purpose bigger than your own, that’s when like, I really think your vision becomes clear. And, and to me, like I didn’t know your brother Kyle, but like he got it like that clicked for him. So, in the transition that you’re making, I’m sorry, I’m getting emotional. and you said that you want to study cultures and you’re searching for this truth. So I would love to really kind of expand more on what your goals are, what this part of your life has opened up and how you are going to continue to dig deeper.
Josh: 00:44:22 well first and foremost, uh, that’s a great question. I travel is step one. I had absolutely no desire travel before Kyle died. I was totally content on sitting in Omaha, Nebraska or Chicago or New York or wherever and my apartment and getting famous and building businesses and making money and watching everything just grow from there because I believed that was impact and I believed that [inaudible] to grow a business. And I, and by the way, like I’m still very business focused and I’m not bashing any entrepreneur in any way, but you know, I believe that in order to build the business you must equally provide value. but the way value is distributed and what we define as valuable. Like there’s a lot that goes with what you build and naturally when you build something sustainable, you’re not just providing value in one area. And so like, like I might T let’s say I had a multimillion dollar sales and social media training company, right? My influence and the, and the core problem that I solve may be that, right?
Josh: 00:45:33 That might be my core contribution to the world. But in reality, like I also have influence in the way I conduct myself because now I’m under a spotlight. I also have, you know, authority and responsibility in my employees and in, and then that culture, I’m also solving those problems. And so there’s these ripple effects. And so I think that entrepreneurship is an incredible, you know, personal development journey that not everybody graduates from, right? Like not everybody becomes a happy, fulfilled person. we all have to level up. But like you start to go and realize that there’s more to life than just building these businesses if you want to succeed. Like success is in an all encompassing thing, not just a in one area. And so for me, I, I was okay with Kyle dying shortly after he died. And what I mean by that is I believe I’m going to see Kyle again.
Josh: 00:46:22 In fact, I know that 100% confidently I can, I can pretty much say that I think largely due to the psychedelic experiences, and if you’ve never done those things, like you can’t understand, but like I think that that brought me a lot of peace. And there’s a lot of scientific studies that would agree with that. What became very apparent to me though is Kyle was someone that questioned truth or that question. What we deem is facts and reality and just like religion and things like that. Kyle explore, explore Catholicism heavily in and a lot of different like religions. And that’s what I’ve been doing a lot. And I look at this and I grew up in a Christian home in 20 you know, in, in the 21st in 21st century in a, in America in the greatest time to be alive ever. And I am a Christian.
Josh: 00:47:07 I believe that the God of the Bible is God. I believe that the Bible is the most accurate and true book on the planet. But I also know that I learned that in a context that’s pretty convenient for me, right? Like I also know that like, Hey, I look at Russell Brunson and I look at Ben Shapiro and I look at Glenn Beck and I look at, you know, Ravi Zacharias and like Ravi Zacharias is a Christian apologist. Ben Shapiro’s ju ju follows Judaism. And Glenn back and Russell Brunson are Mormon, right? Like these are very, very well educated people and they all have very, very different views. Like who’s to say that Ben Shapiro is going to hell, right? And, or Russell Brunson is going to hell if you, you know, because they, you know, that just doesn’t seem right to me. And this, this other concept of, and this is one that I really, really, I really struggle with to this day is God is perfect.
Josh: 00:47:58 That’s what the Bible says, right? God is without flaw and God created the world. And he saw that it was good. And I’m like, is this your best work? God [inaudible] it seems pretty jacked up, right? Like the world and nature is a beautiful thing. But I’m like, wouldn’t you put in some safety mechanisms to not let extreme pain happen, to not let like children get raped, right? And I can, you can say, Oh, you know, love has to exist in order for love to exist. There must be evil. Right? Or there must be, you know, hatred. And I’m like, yeah, but God is also the one that designed that. You know what I mean? [inaudible] if God had created a universe of gods who created the world. So for me, I want to go and my purpose and my goal with traveling besides just seeing cool places [inaudible] I want to see what is universally true around the world, not just true in what I know.
Josh: 00:48:47 I want to see what’s universally true for the rich, for the poor, for black, white, other, you know, other countries, other cultures, other ideas. I want to see truth and medicine and truth and healing and truth and religion. I want to see universal truth than universal laws and have a much deeper understanding of how this world works. And you know, for me, I just recently visited the grand Canyon and like saw that and I like look at that. And I go, as of right now, I believe there’s one singular God and I believe it’s the God of the Bible. But it seems pretty weird to me. And I wrestled with this idea that like people are going to hell that might not even know God. You know what I mean? Like all these different questions. And so like people questioned me on my beliefs and they’re like, you know, Josh, how could you believe this?
Josh: 00:49:29 And I don’t, I don’t know the answer. Right? And there’s a verse in the Bible and it says, always be ready to give him an account for what you believe. Basically know why you believe what you believe. And I don’t know why I believe what I believe in all areas. I don’t know why I believe the Bible to be true. And I studied it and I’ve read the book of Mormon and I’ve read some of the Quran and I’ve read, you know, some, you know, Catholicism and stuff and I’ve studied world views and I’m like, I understand why we think Christianity’s right. I understand why I believe that right now. But some people make some really good points and you know, it’s really, really hard for me. And I think one of the things that’s become very, very evident in today’s society for me is like perspective, right?
Josh: 00:50:03 I’m like it is really easy for me to like look down on people or not look down on people but like look at things from one perspective from like, okay someone that’s made millions of dollars when I hang out with millionaires and their perception of the world and see it one way and then on the flip side go hang out with a bunch of poor people and have their perception worlds. You’d have another way. And I’m like those are two so radically different things. And while I can default to thinking that logic is a thing and that the rich people probably have it figured out because they’ve used logic on a lot of things or you know, well-off, successful people, not even just rich. I’m like, there’s also a third perception. The middle class, there’s also a fourth perception growing up on the water. Like if you grew up on the ocean versus growing up in the Midwest versus growing up in New York city, those are three fundamentally different dynamics of the world that we live in.
Josh: 00:50:47 So which one’s right, right? Like what, what’s absolute truth in all of those? And so for me, like expanding that culture and expanding my mindset to know how do I serve people, what is right? What is wrong? What morals do I need to be following? Well, like where can I push the boundaries? Where do I need to take a stance? Like I’m an empath and I know people don’t believe that because they think that, Oh, because I voted for Trump or because I’m preached personal responsibility or because I am, you know, whatever, that I don’t feel people’s pain. But I’m like, if when I see a homeless person on the street, I just want to give him all my money, right? I want to sit down with them and just ask them where they went wrong in their life and where they’re hurting and how I can pray for them and help them.
Josh: 00:51:24 You know what I mean? Like, that’s what I want to do when I see people that are struggling. And single moms. Yeah. Do I say the way out is personal responsibility? Yes. But that doesn’t mean that at a very core level, my heart breaks for them and I wish I could help them, but I’m like, I can’t tell everybody. You know, what can though personal responsibility and taking responsibility for your actions can. But I’m like, is that true for everyone? Is that, is that a universal truth? It’s true in America. Right? But it’s not a universal truth. It seems to be in the Bible that it says it is. So let me to go validate that. And so like for me, seeing is believing a lot of times and a lot of, you know, there’s some things that you do just have to accept by faith, but I think that I can have a much broader understanding of the world and what’s important and figure out what I want to do with life and what I believe and how I should treat people.
Josh: 00:52:07 If I know what’s true universally and you know, prioritizing family and like, you know, I’ve told people this before, like I don’t know if I want it kids. Like I think I do, everyone tells me I make a great father, but I’m like, I don’t think people understand the responsibility of kids, right? Like that’s a major freaking huge, ginormous life changing, altering responsibility. You don’t get the free choice to go out and just build a business anymore. Like you’ve got to put your family first and business all of a sudden comes second. Every goal, every dream that you have now becomes secondary when you have a child. Right? It just does. It has to. If you want to be a good parent [inaudible] I’m not saying you can’t have all those things, but I’m like, I’ve got goals, I’ve got dreams, I’ve got, you know, I’m one of the most driven people I’ve ever met and so I look at that and I’m like, I don’t know if I want kids.
Josh: 00:52:51 Certainly not soon, right? I got stuff to figure out first. And I don’t think that people take enough time to figure out what they believe before they make literal life altering decisions. And we’re so quick to just do things so quickly without like actually like looking in. And it’s, it’s hard for me because growing up like what got me to where I’m at today is not thinking about things. Just do it. Just figure it out as you go. Just go, go, go, go, go. But the more I get, and I think the single biggest thing for me with this is I understand that I now have influence in the last two events that I’ve gone to Steve Larsen’s offer mind and, and funnel hacking live. Not sarcastically or not like exaggerating. I’ve had one to 200 people come up to me wanting to take my picture.
Josh: 00:53:38 Well, that’s crazy, right? That’s insane to me. Like I’m 25 like how did I, how did I get here? And I’m, and I love that. I love taking pictures and I love like that to me, she says, you’re doing something right. You’re doing something that’s resonating with people, keep it up. But with great privilege like that, that is a privilege and an honor for people to want to come and take it. Like when someone comes up and I was like, well, can I take a picture with you? I’m like, I’m the lucky one. You want to take a picture with me or what? Like yes, of course you can. I feel blessed to do that. But with that I know my thoughts and ideas that I am putting out into the world are fundamentally starting to shape the way people think. And because I have that piece of influence, I now need to go out and figure out what’s actually true, what I actually believe because so help me, God, I would hate to lead someone down a path that is wrong and say something absolutely that is not an absolute. And so for me, like exploring culture and seeing universal truth and knowing what I believe is so fundamentally important. So seeing culture from the way they eat to the way they take care of their medicine to the way they treat their other leads or the way they teach their kids to the way politics are ran to the way they worship. I want to visit churches. Like that’s so important to me.
Kaci: 00:54:43 I think that’s awesome. And something that you said really, I’m kind of stuck out. So I really just want to say I respect the path that you’re taking and the ownership that you’re taking here. cause essentially you have a responsibility for this influence that, that you’re sharing. And so I really want to know, how has your definition of impact changed?
Josh: 00:55:10 Hmm, that’s a good question. I think it’s changed in the sense maybe don’t, maybe not even changed some in much is the way I look at it. I guess it’s like, I used to think that impact was the amount of people that you impacted or the amount of people that you touched. And I think that that’s only one definition of it. I think that there are people that are called to lead the masses and there are people that are called to be very surface level aye fundamentally disagree with a lot of what Joel Olsteen preaches. But for me to criticize him without personally meeting him, knowing him and understanding what goes on there, it would be very foolish of me because maybe God uses him to be the entryway for some people to Christianity. Maybe not. I could be way, way wrong on that, but I think that God uses each person in their own way.
Josh: 00:56:04 And for me, I believe that as of now in my life, and I say this with as much humility as and thankfulness is possible, I’m not trying to sound arrogant in any way. Like I believe that God has given me a very sound mind to understand and understand and want to seek out very deep [inaudible] issues and go very, very deep with people. I’m not a surface level person and I used to be and I used to or I used to come across that way in the content that I put out and you know, I would post pictures of cars and money and like all that stuff, very surface level stuff. Now to me that’s just, well, Oh no I don’t, I’m not mad at people for doing that. I think we all go through stages. But for me, I feel that I am called to really face tough questions in the world.
Josh: 00:56:51 Like to really look at life altering like deep philosophy, philosophical type questions and to go in there and tackle them and, and talk about things that a lot of people don’t really want to talk about. [inaudible] bring those to the masses somehow. And that’s not what’s going to get clicks on social media and it’s not what’s going to ultimately go and, you know, do this. And so my version of success used to be how many people could I influence in the shortest period of time, right? Like it was all speed thing, fastest way to $1 million fast way to a million followers. Fastest way to get on stage. Fast way to do this and now is what is the most impactful way to do that even if it’s over a long period of time. How do I bring truth to the masses? Because everything that the mass has seemed to believe in go for right now.
Josh: 00:57:36 It seems to be pretty jacked up and wrong in my opinion. Like everything. It’s like literally like we’re living in the matrix. It’s weird and so I look at that and I go, I don’t know how I was blessed to have the life that I live. I don’t like it. It’s, I feel guilty about it sometimes. Like I do, like I, I understand that I’m so, so incredibly privileged and not because of the color of my skin and not because of, you know, some political person in office or anything like that. I am blessed from my own mind that somehow some way at 21 or tried 25 years old, I was able to free my mind and have an understanding of the world that I do today. I understand that that is so rigid. Dick callously rare. And so the responsibility that I feel on that is very, very heavy and I go in a good way.
Josh: 00:58:18 Like I’m not saying that I’m like depressed about it in any way, but I’m like, okay, I know truth to an extent more than a lot of people do. I think so let me go validate that and let me absolutely find out what I believe is true. And then once I know something to be true, I’m going to distribute that to as many people as I possibly can for as long as I believe that to be true because people need to hear that. And so impact to me goes much deeper. Now I want to fundamentally shift the way that people believe and the way that they see themselves and the way that they say religion and the way that they see God and the way that they treat other people. Like I want to fundamentally shift that. The reason that I am in sales, the reason that I teach sales right now is because I fundamentally believe that sales is a skill set that every single human being should sure learn.
Josh: 00:59:03 I believe that any single person that no sales that didn’t before has fundamentally bettered their life. Right? And I believe that I know how to and I’ve been very blessed in that way to be able to figure that out. So that is why I teach it. There’s a reason I stopped purely teaching people how to grow on social media because at one in my life I did the math and I went and I went and I looked at growing Instagram followers and me, not me personally, but my team and the people that we’ve, you know, gone in like Ben and partner with have produced
Josh: 00:59:34 over a hundred thousand pieces of content. That is a lot of content and a lot of it was just meaningless crap, right? It was memes and like stuff when we first started growing and so I went from that and I went, that might be impact. I might reach a lot of people, I might entertain a lot of people, but if I’m not fundamentally bettering their lives with a message that I believe to be true, then I don’t believe that I should be putting my time and effort there because it’s a waste in the long run. And so I’m very, very focused on things that actually matter that are actually going to have a longterm impact that I don’t think energy should be spent on things that aren’t. And so I really struggle with putting out content. The reason I put out less content than I do before is because I have less things to say.
Josh: 01:00:12 The reason I have less things to say is because I’m unsure of so much. And the reason I have a podcast is because I can talk more deeply with listeners versus an, you know, a Facebook live every day. You know, what gets people to watch Facebook lives? Whatever’s clickbait, what gets people to listen to podcasts, they listen to podcasts. Right? And so like that shift of all that came from an impact change to say I am on a focus on things that matter. Do I know what that is yet? Some sometimes in some areas, yeah. But overall I, I’m still learning and so I think my definition has changed in that scenario.
Kaci: 01:00:48 I love that. And I think your overarching philosophy is that there is, there is value to all people in all walks of life. Even the ones that we disagree with or, or like you said on the surface may just completely seem polar opposite of what we are. There’s still value there. And I think no matter what direction this takes you and on your journey of discovery that if that is the consistent message of, of just treating these new experiences and cultures with respect and, and filtering it and taking out like what, what it means to, to mold and shape your life, the way that you’re bringing everyone along, is an open window. Like, and it’s an opportunity for a lot of people to make the world smaller. And that’s where the walls start coming down, in my opinion, that it’s really hard to criticize somebody that you’ve fallen in love with. Right. All of a sudden, like you can have a calm and respectful conversation. So I think that’s beautiful of what you’re doing and that you’re bringing everyone on the journey. So in that journey, what does that look like and have you thought beyond it? So, so after this 14 country tour, do you have an idea of what’s next or are you going to kind of just roll with it?
Josh: 01:02:11 I think that God’s plans are going to be way different than my plans. So, I have an idea, but I think the purpose of going into the trip is to have my whole perception of life and reality completely flipped on top of its head. Like I’m kind of fully expecting that going in. Everybody says that it is. And growing up I kind of had the mentality that I’m like, yeah, the world’s pretty much the same. You know, like people go to work, they clock in and they clock out, they do their thing. Some people are more family focused on people, more business focused. I’m hustling on my side of things. I don’t expect that necessarily to be the case for me when I travel this time. And, and I’ve been to other countries before, like I have traveled to Italy and Ireland and quote Amala and Denmark, like, you know, places like that.
Josh: 01:02:55 But like, I don’t expect it to be the same that time. Yes. I do expect the podcast to continue and I do expect things, different theory to be division in the future. I would like to think that it will be very content based and that I will probably take a step back from building like major businesses and I probably will be more in the element of going the creator route, a and creating messages and making messages and, and videos go viral or content go viral and maybe not even viral, but just like, you know, creating a movement around ideas rather than around products. Yep. our products are the delivery of an idea, right? I believe. And so I’m not exactly sure how that’s going to look, but I love teaching. I love teaching. I, and I’m not, you know, I love being on stage.
Josh: 01:03:47 I love being in front of people. I love changing people’s lives. So I imagine that that will continue. how that will come about. I am not sure. and I’ve kind of left it pretty open ended, which is very rare for me. I’m, I’m a very like plan oriented. Here’s what we’re going to do and we’re going to figure out, in fact, I told him, Leah, who’s coming with me on the trip, I said, if I lose every penny that I have and you know, for some reason I don’t know, something comes up and I come back and land back in the United States with zero, that would’ve freaked me out and like totally jacked my identity two years ago. Like just, I wouldn’t have been able to function as a human being. But if I come back from the trip, completely changed. And that’s where I started at.
Josh: 01:04:29 That’s my starting point. I’m okay with that. Do I plan for that to happen? No. Would that be an embarrassing thing to admit? Probably. Yeah. You know, like, but [inaudible] I don’t know what’s going to happen, you know? And if I come back like that, so be it. Because I’m very, you know, I do have sales experience, I do know how to create value and make money and, and, and go and have those things. And I’m very, very blessed in that scenario. So for me, like the future is very much in the unknown. But I imagine that whatever it is, it will be done under think different theory. It will be done under the message of making the world a better place and it will be done from a entirely, entirely new perspective of someone that is hopefully seeing, you know, a lot of wisdom throughout the world.
Kaci: 01:05:08 I think that’s incredible. And I think the biggest thing, if I could give you some advice is just to remember that money is a tool to leverage. I know you don’t know a lot of my back story, but almost eight years ago, my husband went through brain surgery. So we already had that shift that experiences mean more than money. And we have our own trip coming up because we a couple of years ago were able to go to London and Paris and Germany because just like you, it was one of those things like one day when we’re retired we’ll save up enough money. You know what I mean? But when that shift comes, and you even mentioned it in one of your podcasts, you said, you know, I’m only 25 years old, I only have one life to live. We had that same kind of aha moment at 30, so he was diagnosed at 30 and we have this, you know, it total shifted where it became about our family, our kids, and what we’re going to do and what we’re going to truly put a priority on.
Kaci: 01:06:05 And so we have a, we have our own trip coming up to London and Paris and like, we have four kids. So like we’re totalling it up. And when you said if I come back to the United States without a penny to my name, I kind of like laughed in my head because like that’s literally thoughts that I’ve had within the last 24 hours. It truly is about us experiencing this with our kids because no one is promised tomorrow. And so I, I love the fact that you’re taking on this trip to, it’s not a monetary value anymore. It’s an internal value that totally shifts you and that is invaluable.
Josh: 01:06:46 Yeah. And I would like to, to add an, and to clarify that specifically too, and I absolutely love that I am not advocating for being financially stupid. Right. And I’m not saying you guys are, but like for those that are less like for those that are listening, you know, I have always been the person growing up that was like, don’t go travel, save your money, travel and you have money. Like get, get your finances right first. I think that that is a super important th th a hard decision that one must make. I am very blessed to be able to have the money to go into this and have the freedom to be able to go and do this. I am not saying if you’re in a job right now and have 1000 bucks to your name, that you should quit your job and go travel the world and take on a bunch of debt, that would be very foolish.
Josh: 01:07:28 I’m very advocate, like I’m a huge advocate of planning for the future. I think that the reason that our society is the way that it is is because of instant gratification. Like, and so, you know, putting off things. Yeah. [inaudible] if you want to go travel, I’m not saying like drop everything because I’ll ma’am, we’re not promised tomorrow be smart about it. But for me, in my scenario right now where I am in, if I came back at 26 years old, which I’ll have my birthday overseas and I come back, I’m like, okay, I’m 26. I have a crazy like I like I get, I’m in a very unique position, which once again is, it’s, it’s a hard thing not to feel guilty about. I’ll be honest with you Cassie. Like
Josh: 01:08:08 I look at myself and I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t know even famous. But when they say like fame changes people or like changes the for people, like I have access [inaudible] to phone conversations and information and, and, and people in my network that most can’t fathom, right. In a a nine to five job that I’ve never had a, not that it’s out of reach for them now that they can go and do it. I worked like I worked my butt off. I worked. The reason that people are, and I’m very, very open about this, the reason where you’re at right now is because you didn’t work hard enough. Right? Like you didn’t, weren’t intentional about it. It’s not just hard work and smart work. I was smart and I worked hard. So I’m very blessed in that. But I also understand that like not everybody can go take a life trip, which is why we’re filming it, which is why we’re going to put it out on YouTube, which is why we’re going to do that. Aye would not do this.
Josh: 01:08:54 I’m not doing this trip to get followers. I’m not doing this trip for anybody else but me. Like I’m not, I’m doing it so that I can go and learn. But I understand that a lot of people value a perspective of someone that they trust and that they value. And I understand that I have that influence and I understand that I have the financial capability to go do it. So we have, you know, getting the drone and then the cameras and we’re putting it out there because a lot of people do need to see new perspective. They do need to see new culture and an overwhelming majority of people never get to go do that. And so I want people to be able to see that. And if I can be a tool for that, then great. And so, you know, don’t be done with your money, but like, no, for me it’s like if I lost everything tomorrow, I could go make a hundred grand next year without a problem. You know what I mean? Like it’s just, it’s a different reality. And so, from a financial standpoint, so you want to clarify that?
Kaci: 01:09:39 Yeah. And I think it’s a completely different relationship with money as well. we both grew up in [inaudible] and poor families and I’ve had to struggle with that. Like save it and not use it until you retire. And then we had to come to that same realization, like I may not be able to walk, you know, when I retire. and it’s one of those things I totally agree with you. and that’s why we worked so hard in our business to have, the financial stability and cash flow to be able to do this stuff. So I am totally like you. I am, I am a saver. Like I am a ridiculous saver and that’s why we’re able to do trips like this. Like our kids complain about it, you know, because they want us, like they want this or that. And if it’s not on sale, they’re just gonna have to wait for certain things. So totally 100% agree with you. They’re like, be completely smart with your money, but at the same time like put your value in and what things that you value most. And I know we’re coming up on the top of the hour, so I want to definitely give you an opportunity to kind of wrap everything up with any final thoughts that you might have.
Josh: 01:10:44 I mean, we, we have, I, I have a little extra time we can go over. if you, you know, want to, I can go about 15 over, if, uh, if we want to,
Kaci: 01:10:52 I can go for a little while. I just have a hard stop at,
Josh: 01:10:56 that’s fine too. Um,
Kaci: 01:10:58 I don’t know. [inaudible] absolutely. You know, at this point I would really love to, extend the offer. I have a podcast of my own called brace for impact. I would love to continue this because like I literally could talk a couple hours like on
Josh: 01:11:14 everything that we’ve covered. Yeah. I think we could probably do a part two on, on thing, different theory as well. I think that, you know, you’ve asked good questions with it. aye. I wear a shirt, I’m not wearing it right now, but I have a shirt that’s called or that says misunderstood on it. And well one thing my mom said to me one time was, you know, and I’ve been told this before as well, but as you know, your mom says it kind of sticks with you. And she said, you know, Josh, if you’re misunderstood, like it’s kind of your job too, state things in a way that people can understand so that you’re not misunderstood. Right? Like it’s your job not to be misunderstood. Like you can’t blame other people like you’re all about, you’re the personnel or personal responsibility person, right?
Josh: 01:11:56 Like you take responsibility for your actions. You, if someone is, understands, you find like, but that’s kind of your fault, isn’t it? Like that’s going against your own. Yeah. Thinking [inaudible] she, she is right in that to a certain extent. I struggle with that and I do, I feel wildly misunderstood by most people. I am, I’m a, I’m an extrovert. I’m a hardcore extra and I become more introverted as I’ve grown. But like, I’m still very much a people person that doesn’t have a lot of close friends. And I’m like, I’m not, don’t be like, don’t feel pity on me. Like I have great close friends, like my best friends in the world. Like they’re awesome. Right? My girlfriends awesome. Like I, I’m not a lonely person by any means, but I do feel misunderstood because a lot of the people in business that I run with, they’re business focused and a lot of the people that are impact focused are broke.
Josh: 01:12:46 And a lot of people that are blaming a lot of the ideas that I support for the reason that they are broke or sad or it’s the governments fault or whatever, like they don’t like the message that I preach, but I know that that’s the way to get ’em out of it. Right. And it’s like, it’s not that I don’t love you, it’s, I’m telling you these things because I do love you. I believe that things that I do because I want like, I want to help you get out of at all. I w like I want to like, I want everybody to win. I like, I’m not trying to win over here that like what it’s kind of, I mean as lonely at the top for sure. But like also like I just want everybody to win. I don’t want anybody to be hurting or in pain or sad or like all these things.
Josh: 01:13:27 And so for me, like I wear this shirt of misunderstood, like I guess my ass to people that have problems with what I do. and the, and the, there are out there for sure is like, look at the whole picture and look at someone, someone made a comment recently on my Facebook post that goes, I don’t understand you at all because your political beliefs or like the people that you support and politics seem to directly contradict a lot of the things that you say you stand for. And I’m like not if you look at the whole picture. And the reason I say that is is because like yeah, I don’t agree with Trump’s character or I don’t agree with so and so doing this or whatever. But I’m like, I look at things from a whole picture perspective, not from a today perspective. I look at the, the ramifications of where things are headed, two, three, six, eight, 10 months down the road or 10 years down the road.
Josh: 01:14:13 And I look at like a lot of those things. And so for like for me, the decisions I make are very big picture Bay almost probably sometimes too much big picture based. I don’t mind. Sometimes I don’t take enough action in the immediate anymore. [inaudible] aye have a heart that wants to help people and [inaudible] aye. I am not trying to be a cocky, arrogant person. I am not trying, I don’t think I’m better than anyone. Like if anything, I think a lot of people have life way more figured out that I do. People tell me all the time and be like, Josh, like you have, you know, I hear all the time Josh, you have life figured out. And then I hear from the other side of things like, Josh, you think you have life figured out so much? I’m like, okay. I think the person that is totally happy doing nothing like, like sitting in a small town for the rest of their life, that is super, super happy.
Josh: 01:14:55 I think they’ve got life more figured out than I do. Right? Like they might not get it and ignorance is bliss. I’m okay with that person as long as they’re treating everybody else respect. Right. And like my big issue is, is like I think we need to meet each person where they’re at and like we need to understand that like, God, the spirit source, whatever you want to call it, [inaudible] meets us where we’re at. And so like I disagree with a lot of people, especially on politics. And I used to roast people on it until I started to realize that the reason that they’re there is probably because they’d gone through a bunch of pain in their life. I gotta go through some pain in my life and like, not to the extent that some people, like I’m very blessed, my parents are still together.
Josh: 01:15:31 Right? Like that’s, there’s a 50 50 chance that that doesn’t happen. I think it’s more than that now, right? Like I’m very blessed in that scenario, but like we all go through things that shape our perspective. I’m trying to learn everybody’s perspective. I don’t wish that on anybody. Like the amount of personal responsibility and the amount of responsibility that I put on myself to solve the world’s problems. And I know that I can’t, like I get it. Like the amount of responsibility [inaudible] like my mind, like I don’t wish that on anybody like [inaudible] it is, my brain is a crazy place. Right. And I look at like Elon Musk and everyone’s like, everyone wants to be like Elon Musk. What would you say it’d be like that? And he’s like, I don’t think you understand. Like you don’t want to be me. People don’t understand what this is like.
Josh: 01:16:08 Like once it’s on it can’t be shut off. Right. And like my mind has been opened to a lot of things and like the experience that I’ve had opened to a lot of things. I am not out to get anybody. I’m out to help as many freaking people as possible. And so when you hear me say something that might sound contradictory to that, right? It’s because I’m looking at it from a year three, five, seven, 10 down the road. So when you talk about immigrants, are you talking about pain? Are you talking about medicine or health or country or personal responsibility or business like whatever. I promise you, I promise you I care so much more deeply about those people that I’ve come across. Oh, most of the time. And that my heart and my head [inaudible] is focused on impact, is focused on making the world better.
Josh: 01:16:55 I’m 25 and I’ve lived a life that most people don’t get to. I’m really well aware of that. [inaudible] when you know, when you have I, I’ve estimated that I’d probably have like 100,000 people that more or less know who I, okay. You know how many difference of opinions are in 100,000 people? You know what I mean? Like you can’t please everyone, right? I’m not trying to [inaudible] but I’m also not out to create enemies, right? Like, Oh, there’s a lot of my friends out there that are like, screw the haters. Grant Kardon like I want half the people hate me. Half the people love me. No, I don’t want that. Like, no, I would love it if everybody loved me or loved the ideas that I stood for. I wish everybody went. I’m going to be misunderstood for the rest of my life. I’m trying the very best that I can to go make the world better and to go put out these ideas that are going to be positive and I’m messing up in the process.
Josh: 01:17:46 I get it. But I’m trying my best and I think that’s, that’s all that anybody can do. And I think that, you know, we need to stop holding people, singular people in such high esteem. And you know, I hold up my idols too. I look up to Russell Brunson and Tom Brady and Elon Musk probably way more than I should, especially Don Brady, right? Like probably more than I should in for sure. Logan Paul. So like we need to look at things as a whole and complete picture, not just the one thing you fix one thing at a time when you look at things from a complete picture. And I wish that more people understood that about me and my messaging and I wish that people understood that like if you believe differently than me, I love that and I support that and I think that you should, I don’t think anybody should blindly follow anyone and I don’t think people should just accept things for how they are.
Josh: 01:18:34 I think we should question everything and look for truth and if that’s the message that I can get across and leave the people, that’s ultimately what it’s about. Yup. I’m going to be business focused. Yup. You’re going to see me probably flashing some things and living in crazy, awesome, incredible life and maybe sometimes I’m in a crop will come across as a cocky 25 year old arrogant person. I get it. It’s going to happen. Right? It’s my personality. But no, that more often than not almost always, it is not my intention to tick anybody off or offend anybody unless you’re evil. [inaudible] there’s evil in the world like obviously, but that’s typically not the case. And so I think that would be kind of like my final thoughts and everything. Like I’ve been through a lot, the responsibility of employees. If you’ve ever had employees or have you never managed people, like it’s a crazy thought when you’ve got bills to pay and your, your people sources of income and like, like when you go through all these different things, like it’s, I feel like I’ve broken free from the matrix in a lot of ways.
Josh: 01:19:29 And like that’s why I like, you know, Pete, Steve Larson and Russell, I’ll talk about finding your identity, finding your call to people. I get it. My homies, I’m like, because at least they understand, right? Like, like, I’m sorry if you’ve just never been an entrepreneur. If you’ve never, if you’ve only worked nine to five your whole life, like I’m sorry, you’re not going to be able to relate to me. You’re just not, I’m sorry. Like I see the world differently than you do. It doesn’t make me better than you. But like when I say things are this way and you go, no they’re not, I am coming at it from a producer standpoint, I’m the one writing the paychecks for people, right? Like I, I know what that’s like and it’s just different when you’re at the top. And I don’t mean like at the top of success.
Josh: 01:20:02 I mean like when you’re, when the responsibility falls on you, it’s like being a parent, right? Like when the responsibility on you, when the response, like when, if there was a lawsuit, if there’s a problem, if there are issues, it falls on you. That’s a whole different reality than somebody that has never experienced that before. And I just wished people know that like go do the best job. You can know that I’m doing the best job that I can. And by all means, like look to whatever the thing is that you call God and just begging for him to give you as much strength and power as you can, as, as he will let you, because the only way that you’re going to get through this life and the only way that you’re going to have a massive impact and the only way that you’re going to find clarity and make a difference and be the person that you needed to be is if you look to an external source outside of yourself that is not in this world because the world’s jacked up and we’re broken involving people. So I think that would be like kind of my closing thoughts on this, which I know very, very deep. I wish we have more time to go into it, but,
Kaci: 01:20:59 no, that’s, that’s absolutely incredible. I, and I agree. Like if everyone’s listening, if you could just, you know, take a step back and look at the bigger picture of the world around you and an external view. I talked about this on my podcast the other day, the golden rule versus the platinum rule. whereas the platinum rule is, treating others the way that they want to be treated. And I wholeheartedly believe like that is what you’re seeking. That’s the truth that you’re trying to communicate. You’re already starting to ask the hard questions. but in the big scheme of things, respect and kindness are free. And if you have those conversations through those filters, the knowledge is, is just priceless. And, and to me like that is what your journey represents and that’s what you’re opening up and sharing with everyone. So four on that behalf of everyone, I’d like to really thank you for the time together.
Kaci: 01:21:58 I’d love to really take up, if you’re okay we can follow up and schedule something. But I think part two like transitioning because we are both, very impact-driven. Like you are the sales side. I focus on marketing and I feel the same way about marketing skillset as you do as passionately with sales. Like, if you have a marketing skillset, like it’s essential in this day and time and it’s just as it always has been, but like justice now. But if you can bind all of the things that make a good kind of quote unquote healthy business, if you combine that with impact, you’re unstoppable. I’m so many other levels, like on deeper levels. And like you said, if everyone else like surface level yes and ROI is great, a great bottom line is even better. A profitable, amazing company. Amazing. But when you take that all that’s good and you pair it with impact, who can argue against that? Yeah. And we can really stand against that. And I think there is a place in the world for businesses like that. I agree.
Josh: 01:23:03 I agree.
Kaci: 01:23:04 So I would love follow up with you.
Kaci: 01:23:06 Josh, I’ve got to hop. I have another… another call.
Josh: 01:23:10 Yeah.
Kaci: 01:23:10 But thank you so much. It’s been amazing.
Josh: 01:23:12 Yeah. Kaci, thank you so much for coming on and doing this. I think this is really, really good. And, you the listener, I hope this was beneficial and that… yeah, you learned something about me with it, and we’ll have to followup and do part two. So Kaci, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you doing the interview. Guys, as always. Hustle, hustle. God bless. Do not be afraid to think different and be a free thinker, because those of us that are free thinkers, and that do think different, and see things different, and act different, are really the only ones that change the world. Doing more of the same isn’t going to change, and you got to take the responsibility and control of your life. So, I love you all and I will see you on the next episode, and hopefully part two of this episode as well. Kaci, again, thank you so much. We’ll talk soon.
Kaci: 01:23:52 Thank you. Bye, everyone.
Outro: 01:23:55 Yo, what’s up guys? You’ve been listening to The Think Different Theory with myself, Josh Forti, which I like to call, “A new paradigm of thinking”, and real quick, I got a question for you. Did you like this episode? If you did, I want to ask a huge favor. See, the biggest thing that helps this podcast grow, and that will spread this message of positivity and making the world a better place, is if you leave a review, a rating and subscribe to the podcast. What that does is, it basically tells the platforms that this is out on, that you like my stuff, and that I’m doing something right. So if you could take like three seconds out of your day and subscribe, leave a rating, and a review, I would be forever grateful for you. Also, I want to hear from you. I want to know your feedback, your ideas, and your questions for future episodes. So be sure to hit me up on Instagram in the DM @JoshForti or via email contact@ThinkDifferentTheory.com