Think Different Theory

Kathryn Has Boy Drama (And We Talk About Entrepreneurship & Parenting)


In this episode, I interview Kathryn Jones, a #1 bestselling author, and Founder/CEO of both ClickFunnels Design School and Automate Academy. She is a master funnel/web designer who got sick of seeing ugly funnels cost people sales and thus decided to start teaching people the 6-step process of funnel design.


Kathryn comes on to share the story of how her entrepreneurial journey started after a boy broke her heart and questioned her ability to be an entrepreneur and a good mother, being all about motherhood and entrepreneurship, and so much more. This is a CAN’T MISS episode. Enjoy!

Here are the key topics discussed in this episode:

  • Traveling and interacting with thousands of people (03:50)
  • Influence is a catalyst for success, change and great impact (06:18)
  • The personal development changes and struggles that led her to start ClickFunnel Design School (17:56)
  • Questioning the purpose of marriage, parenting, and entrepreneurship (27:00)
  • The three fundamental truths that got her back (32:49)
  • An entrepreneur’s role is equal to a parent’s role (36:04)
  • Learning a lot of skills from the agency model (40:45)
  • Going all in with the financial risk to start a business (42:42)
  • Design Hacking Live and what’s next for Kathryn (52:56)
  • How to successfully Dream 100 Kathryn and get her attention (58:09)


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October 25, 2019


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Disclaimer: The Transcript Is Auto-Generated And May Contain Spelling And Grammar Errors

Kathryn: 00:00:00 And so then I started to look into what is an entrepreneur, and if this boy that I dated thought that entrepreneurship was so at odds with motherhood, then like, what is actually an entrepreneur? And, you want to know what, if you do a study of entrepreneurship, do you want to know what the role of an entrepreneur is? It is to literally enable, to make things that you couldn’t do before possible, and to provide opportunity. And, oh my gosh like, I remember the moment that that became clear for me, when all of a sudden I realized that parenthood literally equals entrepreneurship.

Intro: 00:00:32 You‌ ‌are‌ ‌now‌ ‌entering‌ ‌a‌ ‌new‌ ‌paradigm.‌ ‌So, ‌here’s‌ ‌my‌ ‌issue.‌ ‌I‌ ‌wanted‌ ‌to‌ ‌find‌ ‌the‌ ‌ answers‌ ‌to‌ ‌life’s‌ ‌biggest‌ ‌questions.‌ ‌Things‌ ‌like,‌ ‌how‌ ‌do‌ ‌I‌ ‌become‌ ‌happy‌ ‌and‌ ‌live‌ ‌with‌ ‌purpose?‌ ‌ How‌ ‌do‌ ‌I‌ ‌make‌ ‌more‌ ‌money‌ ‌doing‌ ‌what‌ ‌I‌ ‌love,‌ ‌and‌ ‌what‌ ‌does‌ ‌it‌ ‌mean‌ ‌to‌ ‌be‌ ‌truly‌ ‌successful‌ ‌in‌ ‌ all‌ ‌areas‌ ‌of‌ ‌life?‌ ‌My‌ ‌name‌ ‌is‌ ‌Josh‌ ‌Forti,‌ ‌@JoshForti‌ ‌on‌ Instagram,‌ ‌and‌ ‌I‌ ‌ask‌ ‌life’s‌ ‌biggest‌ ‌ questions‌ ‌and‌ ‌share‌ ‌the‌ ‌answers‌ ‌with‌ ‌you.‌ ‌My‌ ‌goal‌ ‌is‌ ‌to‌ ‌help‌ ‌you‌ ‌find‌ ‌purpose,‌ happiness,‌ ‌and‌ ‌ open‌ ‌your‌ ‌mind‌ ‌to‌ ‌new‌ ‌realms‌ ‌of‌ ‌possibility‌ ‌by‌ ‌helping‌ ‌you‌ ‌think‌ ‌differently‌ ‌about‌ ‌everything‌ ‌you‌ do,‌ ‌know,‌ ‌and‌ ‌understand.‌ ‌On‌ ‌this‌ ‌podcast,‌ ‌we‌ ‌think‌ ‌different,‌ ‌we‌ ‌dream‌ ‌bigger,‌ ‌and‌ ‌we‌ ‌live‌ ‌in‌ ‌a‌ ‌ world‌ ‌without‌ ‌limits.‌ ‌This‌ ‌is‌ ‌a‌ ‌new‌ ‌paradigm.‌ ‌Welcome‌ ‌to‌ ‌The‌ ‌Think‌ ‌Different‌ ‌Theory.

Josh: 00:01:17 What’s up guys? Welcome back for another episode of The‌ ‌Think‌ ‌Different‌ ‌Theory. My name is Josh Forti, and I’ve got to say. This episode. I do not know where it’s going to go. It’s going to be super, super fun. I am very excited. You guys know, and I’ve said it, pretty much every single person I’ve ever interviewed ever, I only bring on cool people. I bring on people that I would actually sit down and have a conversation with, that I would actually want to learn from. And, we tried to bring out a side of them that you would not normally hear. This next guest just informed me that, right after this interview, she has another interview, and I’m like, “Definitely going to be cooler in this interview than in the next one.” So, basically, when I say that, it’s to tell you guys that like I don’t take these interviews lightly. The content that I put out is very thought through, and we put a lot of time into it.

Josh: 00:02:01 Putting out three episodes a week is not an easy task, but by the time you guys are listening to this, I am somewhere around the globe somewhere. So, keep in touch or visit Instagram, or YouTube, or wherever, to see where I’m at. But, we’re… we’re batching these ones out. It is an absolutely glorious day. It’s supposed to be the last nice day here in Omaha, and it is a crystal clear blue sky, but it’s just super, super windy. But, without further ado, guys, this next interview is by… she actually didn’t give me like any bio, or anything for me to read off of. Maybe she did my team, but I don’t have it in front of me. But she is someone who I had no idea who she was until a couple months… about a month ago, month and a half ago. I had heard of the company that she runs, ClickFunnels Design School, but didn’t really know much about it.

Josh: 00:02:46 And then I met her at Steve Larsen’s OfferMind, and we instantly hit it off, and we’re friends, and we’re like, “Hey, we should know each other, because you’re cool. I’m cool. Let’s be friends.” That was her saying that, of course, not me. And, but none other than Kathryn Jones. Kathryn, welcome to The‌ ‌Think‌ ‌Different‌ ‌Theory.

Kathryn: 00:03:01 Oh, my gosh. I am so excited to be here. And, just to solidify what you said earlier, I do have another interview after this, but they… they get… they get the crumbs, you know. You’re getting all the goods here. All the goods.

Josh: 00:03:14 What can I say? What can I say? We try to do that and I’m guessing that like, I don’t know what they’re interviewing you for. I haven’t, I have no context around it. But usually when people like you get interviewed, it’s like, Hey, how do you make money? How do you, how did you build a business? All that type of stuff. Yeah,

Kathryn: 00:03:28 yeah. For sure.

Josh: 00:03:29 That’s not going to be this. So get ready, buckle land because we’re about to bring some stuff out of you that most people have never heard before. So.

Kathryn: 00:03:36 that’s why I like hanging out with ya. That’s right. That was where the year cool. I’m cool. We should be friends. Thing came from.

Josh: 00:03:41 That’s right. Because we just do things a little bit different. We think differently. We do things differently. We understand things differently. That’s what think different theory is all about.

Kathryn: 00:03:48 I love it.

Josh: 00:03:49 Kathryn, how you been?

Kathryn: 00:03:50 Oh my gosh. I am doing, I am doing so good. I have been a traveling all over the place. I literally just got back yesterday from Houston. I was speaking at an event and…

Josh: 00:04:00 I saw that all over Instagram.

Kathryn: 00:04:02 Oh my gosh. It was so fun. I don’t know. I don’t know if you feel the same way, but I think um, having, having a big online business and interacting with like thousands of people every day and it’s really fun. But yeah, sometimes you forget that. I don’t know. It’s just fun to see people in in real life and be like, Oh my gosh, like I know you. How are you? And so it was, it was just amazing to be there.

Josh: 00:04:23 And I think that’s super interesting too because like one of the things that I have noticed, and I’ve talked about this before on different interviews, but I’d be curious to know your thoughts on it. Like it’s weird having an audience [inaudible] it’s this new kind of fame because not really fame, right? Like we’re not like mainstream Hollywood famous by any means. But like, I know for me there’s quite a few people and, and I say this with as much humility as I can.

Josh: 00:04:45 Like I’m not trying to like do my own horn here, but like could just through the nature of what I do, naturally, I’ve gone garnished in audience and I’ve been very intentional about that. But when you have an audience, it’s very different than just running a business because when you’re running a business, right? Like I always compare it like, look at Russell Brunson versus Sam ovens. Sam ovens is famous because he’s made millions and millions and millions of dollars and he’s helped a lot of people in direct customers. But I wouldn’t really say that Sam ovens has really started a movement. Right. Sam ovens, you know, like he doesn’t go to events at all. But like Kim compared to Russell, like Russell’s going to draw much more big, you know, a much bigger crowd. And that’s the same thing is true. Like when you just have a small business, like I don’t make millions of dollars, but when I walk into a room or to an event at everything versus someone that has made millions of dollars but it’s not famous, those are two very different things. You know what I mean?

Kathryn: 00:05:33 Oh, I couldn’t agree more. And I think, um, I think with that there’s a lot different, uh, responsibility almost. Um, because I think, I love what you use the term movement and I think that’s something that I’m actually like really passionate about. People ask me all the time like, what’s your end game? Like, what do you want to do? And I think it’d be pretty naive to be like at some 28 years old to be as a 28 year old woman and be like, this is what I want my life to look like. And for the next 60 years, I mean like I look at opportunities that have been presented to me in the last six weeks that like I didn’t even know. I didn’t even know that was like, you know what I mean, available to me. And so, um, I think that’d be like, again, pretty ignorant of me to be like, Oh, this is what I’m going to do. But I do think the thing that is super impactful when I, when I look at, I think what it takes to have impact, I think it’s like money.

Kathryn: 00:06:18 Do you have it, you have money, you have time and you have influence. And I think influences probably the biggest lever of all of those. And so, yeah, so when I look at all the things that, you know, I want to do that I do know I want to do, I think the catalyst for the success of all of those is having some element of influence. And I love what you said, like you don’t have to be pushing $1 million a month to have some crazy influence. I mean like people are like weirdly fan girl over you and I, because they’ve interacted with us. I mean like literally yesterday somebody came to my door, a FedEx guy and he was like, Hey, like it’s Kathryn Jones here. And I’m like, yeah, he’s like, can you sign for a package? I was like, fatty package. And I was like, yeah.

Kathryn: 00:06:53 And I’m, I’m trying to think, I’m like, quick order, what did I do that sometimes I’m like this fun, like I forgot anyway, like literally like somebody is trying to dream 100 me and they like sent me this like awesome. Like essentially it’s like a audio microphone. [inaudible] so that’s awesome. I looked it up, it’s like 250 bucks and then like the day before. I know then like the day before, like again, it’s, it’s kind of awesome when people are trying to dream 100 you one cause you get a lot of cool stuff. But I also think too, um, I just think it’s really, I, I just think it’s validation of the concept that influence is, um, it really is a catalyst for change. And so,

Josh: 00:07:33 well, like I think that like what you said there too about there being a lot of responsibility with that too is very important because like, we’re moving [inaudible] into a new era of the internet and of social media influencers. So like when I got started three years ago, like I’m growing a managed 5 million followers on social media. So like when I got started, anybody could go and become famous. Like literally anybody, like a 10 year old could literally start posting on Instagram and get like $100,000. It was so, right. But now we’ve gotten to the point where the market, it’s pretty saturated now. I’m not saying there’s not opportunity. There’s massive, massive opportunity. But what I’m saying is that you have to be a lot more intentional with what you’re doing. Right. And so with that, I feel like, like in order to be big, you do have to be intentional.

Josh: 00:08:16 It’s hard to get famous on accident or have influence on accident anymore, right? I mean every like your YouTube stars, okay, whatever. But like in business particularly, right? So if you are famous or if you are, I don’t want to say famous, if you have influence, right? You no what you’re doing and if you’re not being good. Well like the alternative be good is, I don’t want to say bad or evil, but like it’s not too terribly difficult to have influence now. Right? Like with the internet and everything that is there. So you have a [inaudible]. Did you have a responsibility to be ethical with what you’re doing? You know what I mean? Like you have that responsibility to understand that like people are following you for a reason. If you’re doing dumb stuff, like I can’t tell you how many times, like I’m like, ah, I want to do this.

Josh: 00:08:59 But that would actually probably be a bad idea. Not only because it’s a bad idea, but also like how would everybody else, like how would that be come off or be portrayed? Right. And like I try to still be myself, but it does make me second guess things or, or really think through to the second and third and fourth levels of, you know, um, Oh what’s that called? The effects of like the repercussions of what you think and do. Because if I’m mean to someone in the store, like I shouldn’t be mean to them anyway. Right? But if I’m in a bad mood or whatever and I’m about to snap, I just go, you know what, my life is on the internet and if somebody catches this, like my, my whole career could be ruined. And it’s like almost like a second or third level of protection or like just, Hey, it helps me think through things. And on the flip side of that, like you’ve got to really like when you stand for something and you’re polarizing, that builds an audience. So you got to really be about what you’re about. And I think that that breeds a whole new level of responsibility that most people do don’t understand.

Kathryn: 00:09:51 And something that I think is really, really smart about you in terms of this word of like intentionality is I [inaudible] like what you said, like it’s hard to get famous. And the reality of the matter is that like there still are viral stars, right? Like right, right, right. Are they, they become viral. But I think the game, the name of the game now is longevity, right? You’re, you’re in your twenties, you’re in your mid twenties. I’m in my mid twenties like, and, and it just, I, I think if we’re looking to have the impact that we really want to have, it’s like, Hey, cool. You want to know what? Like yeah, Josh can go be a jerk to somebody in the store and maybe he’ll get some coverage. Cause it’s like, Hey, look at what a jerky is and your stuff’s gonna spike. But then you lose the game after that.

Kathryn: 00:10:27 And so I think, I think this game of longevity is so important in terms of like acting to the truth version of yourself. But also in terms of intentionality, like I think if we’re really seeking deep impact, it’s not only, um, like the amount of people that we have impact over, but like what we’re actually doing with them. I can’t tell you how many people have come to me, um, with people that have five, six, 10, 20 times more followers and social media following than me that are like unbroken. Yeah. Like, like, can I not even like, can I sell your course to my people? Not even like a joint venture. They’re like, can I take your course? I’m like, Oh my gosh. And it’s just because again, like what you’ve said, there has to be some level of intentionality around what is this type of influence that you’re building. And so I think you have to be true to yourself and you also have to be smart on the backend to get some runway so that you can actually push significant and meaningful contact or content to these people. But if you’re broke, it is, it does. [inaudible] it doesn’t go that far if you’re going to run out. Yeah.

Josh: 00:11:29 It really is like, and it sucks to see so many broken influencers out there. Yeah. Like socks for them. But like quite frankly, if you’re an influencer and you’re broke, right. Don’t really have any sympathy for you. You know what I mean? Like if you’ve got an audience, you should be able to monetize it first and foremost, then you should do that. And that, that comes with a level of responsibility. But like if you’re broke and leading people, I feel really bad for the people you’re leading. You know what I mean? Cause you’re like leading them astray. And like I, I’m, I mean I know you’re, you’re Mormon, right?

Kathryn: 00:11:55 Yeah.

Josh: 00:11:56 I’m Christian. You’re a Mormon. So very similar release. They’re like, there’s a verse in the Bible that’s like, um, the leaders, and particularly talking about pastors in this context, but like those who lead are going to be judged that much more. Right? So like at the end of your life, if you lead millions of people astray or hundreds of thousands of people today, or even tens of thousands of people like Australian, you are a liar. I’m manipulative around all that. Like you’re going to be judged that much more. And like you’re gonna be held accountable for that. And like, even if you’re not religious, like I think that, you know, call it karma, call it energy, call it, you know, whatever it is. Like that’s a pretty real thing in the universe. Like it’s going to come back to bite you for, you know, afterwards. But so I think that that is super, super important. Well, let me

Kathryn: 00:12:31 tell me if you’ve had this experience before. I think another thing for me in terms of, uh, being authentic to myself is, I mean I’ve, I, I am in my mid twenties but I’ve been on the internet for awhile, right. And stocks people and have found people to be mentors and watch a ton of their programs and ton of their course content. And then kind of as I’ve grown, I mean, I’ve either been to events with them or I’ve shared stages with them. And it is, it has been a fascinating experience for me to see which one of them are kind of the same offline as they are on. And sometimes it’s not. Sometimes it’s not necessarily bad. They’re just, you know, they can, they can turn on marketing mode and they’re really good in front of camera and then they’re like, Russell, yeah, well I don’t even know with him. Like I, I’ve even had conversations with him and I, I think he is true blue as like,

Josh: 00:13:19 no, but what I mean is that he seems very extroverted online and then you meet the person who’s the most [inaudible] Hillary would just be like,

Kathryn: 00:13:25 totally. And that’s the thing. I don’t have a problem with that at all. Like, because I’m even the same, like I’m like, I need to go, I need to go, uh, I need to go recharge in my hotel room by myself. But I have met certain people that, um, seem to almost be like a little bit fraudulent online. And again, like I, uh, I, and I think I remember the first time that that happened. It was, um, I think I was a little bit naive to that and it was actually pretty devastating because it was somebody that I had like really looked up to, given a lot of money to and had patterned a lot of my business and how I operated by them. And it just really kind of made me second guess everything that I’m out here. I sure am not. And, um, but, but I am so grateful for that experience and like the reality that matters.

Kathryn: 00:14:13 Like everybody has things, right? Like everybody has thinks everybody’s broken and even if you’re not broken, you are broken because you think you’re not broken. Like we’re all working on our stuff and, and I, and I love that. Like I’m like a huge advocate for therapy. I’m a huge advocate for it. It has absolutely transformed my life and like my families. But, um, anyway, but like this first experience especially like it was so crushing for me to like see how they treated other people in real life. And I just remember being like, I will never B like that. Like I, I will like it. It just kind of burn this fire within me that I, yeah, I just think that I, um, I think again, there is a responsibility to,

Kathryn: 00:14:53 um, like if you’re gonna play a game online, you gotta play the game and life really true to who you are. And so again, I’m so grateful for like amazing examples. Like, um, like again meeting you a month ago, I was like, yep, he’s as cool offline as he is online. Russell Brunson has been one for me. Katie Richardson.

Josh: 00:15:08 I love Katie. She’s so cool. Again for the show by the way. She’s coming on.

Kathryn: 00:15:14 Let’s go. Um, her husband, Ben, have you met Ben?

Josh: 00:15:17 Yes, yes, absolutely.

Kathryn: 00:15:19 Epic human beings. And, um, again, like, I’m so grateful. Like they, they, those have really been like huge mentors in my life and they, they have no modes. There’s not selling mode. There’s not presenting mode. There’s not parenting mode. Like Katie Richardson is just Katie Richardson. That’s it. And I, and anyway, I’ve just been like super inspired by that. And I think that that is something that I really tried to uphold, um, as a, as a, you know, quote unquote influencer online.

Josh: 00:15:43 Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I wanted though. Okay. So I want to shift gears because I know we still have plenty of time left, but like I have questions for you. Let’s go. Yeah. I want to dive deep and like bring out some stuff. So I think you guys, for those of you listening, I think you guys have gotten the kind of feel for the type of person that Catherine issues fun and outgoing and even though she’s a major introvert, she claims I still have my skepticism on whether or not that’s true. But, um, well let’s back up though, because I did actually, you mentioned that you stock people right on, of course. But I think we all do. Did you talk to me?

Kathryn: 00:16:14 Of course.

Josh: 00:16:15 Okay. Yeah, I definitely thought you a little bit. Especially especially once I knew that you were coming on and I was like, okay, I really got to like do my homework here because we’d run in the same circles a lot. So if there’s any dirt, I want to bring it up next year.

Kathryn: 00:16:25 Yeah. Expose me.

Josh: 00:16:27 Yeah. Right, right. But no, so things that I did a lot of on is we were, you know, chit chatting about your program or whatnot. And anytime that someone’s in the funnel world and they claim to be good at funnels, I instantly go stalk them no matter who they are. Right. Because I’m like, okay, there’s people that can sell funnels and there’s people that can build funnels. Right. And, uh, especially if they’re not [inaudible] huge. And by huge, I mean like if they’re not Steve Larsen, Russell big, right in the funnel world. Like I’m like, okay, like, do you really know your stuff? So I started kind of to stock a little bit about like your, your training and ClickFunnels design school, which by the way, incredible. Um, congratulations on ClickFunnels design school. Um, but one of the things that I saw in a video that you had done was you kind of went through this transitionary period of your life.

Josh: 00:17:12 And I want to kind of talk a little bit more about that because I’ve gone through something similar, it sounded like, or at least a little bit similar. Um, and have kind of been for the last, I feel like eight, eight or nine months. This year for me has been cool. Hey, I year of change it, you know, with my brother passing away and like just a lot of things happening so well you had said that you were just still at one point like you kind of canceled everything. You were very still, you prayed, you listened and you lived off savings. Right? So like what happened then? What got you to that point? Like what was going on inside you? [inaudible] yeah, we can talk about business but I want to know like [inaudible] you like what was going through your head, the personal development changes, the struggles that you were going through that led you ultimately to getting to click funnel design school.

Kathryn: 00:17:56 Yeah, no, I love that. Um, and I think that’s such a good question because it really is like two fold. I think there was like a really personal journey and then there was more of a business journey for me to kind of do that. And like you said again, so I, um, I’ve been doing marketing. I had, I had just launched a book and became a number one bestseller, which kind of gave me a little bit of, you know, fame, which we love that w.

Josh: 00:18:18 sorry, sorry, sorry, before you dive into anything. Yeah. When did you first start on the internet?

Kathryn: 00:18:23 First start for real? Probably like 2014.

Josh: 00:18:26 So you’ve been doing this for like five years or so. [inaudible] so you’re in, you’re 28 now, so about 23 years old roughly is when you kind of hopped on here.

Kathryn: 00:18:33 Yeah. And I would say I like royally sucked at the internet though for like the first two and a half years. Like, you know, I just, it was just, I have the internet. I mean, I really was not that good. It was pretty like marginal successes here or there. And then about, um, like end of 2015, beginning of 2016 like I had, I had literally like I love Steven Larsen. I was like, I’ve launched like 84 different whatever things. Like I’m like, I relate to that so much. That’s like going, going and I think I had enough failures all of sudden I was like, Oh, I see how this works. And anyways, I had launched this book and I started to get pretty good at marketing. I was doing marketing consulting, I didn’t even know about funnels yet. Discovered click funnels, uh, became apps. Like I actually looked into the software, I was like softwares, okay.

Kathryn: 00:19:15 I was like lead pages junkie and then I read dotcom secrets and then I was like, Oh, free, this stuff is brilliant. I like chucked everything out by, became a certified partner with click funnels until I got really good at building funnels. And um, I kind of understanding, and again, I was just this like for ratio studier of how these things work. So I started the [inaudible].

Josh: 00:19:34 cause you’re an introvert and you like it.

Kathryn: 00:19:37 Yes.

Josh: 00:19:37 There’s often a room and go inside of a book.

Kathryn: 00:19:39 Yes, I know. I love that. Like I like there were, there was like, like summer, like when I discovered the internet, like I was like, Oh my gosh, like truly stayed in my head. Like I would go from work to seven to two and then two to 2:00 AM like all day long on the internet. And it was amazing. And my friends were like, are you okay?

Kathryn: 00:19:58 And I was like, just please, just please support me in this. Like get onto something here.

Josh: 00:20:02 Don’t tell me. I feel like I know it looks like it just the, just let me do my thing is still up.

Kathryn: 00:20:07 Anyway. So I had built this agency and um, and then kind of came this moment when I decided to be still and, and again, I think the, the reason for that happening was two fold. And um, in terms of, and I actually want to go the personal one first cause then the business, but um, yeah, to be really vulnerable. It’s actually super funny that you asked me this question. The first time that I shared the story was this weekend at this event. So like that can never, I told her it’s probably good. I got a, I got a different theory exclusive. I hear a lot. Actually.

Kathryn: 00:20:40 This is good. I’m like, I’m ready to be like super vulnerable anyway, so I was, I’m dating a boy as all.

Josh: 00:20:47 Okay. That’s a great open, I can’t wait to hear this comment. I need some timeline context. Okay. How old? How long ago?

Kathryn: 00:20:54 It’s 2016 it’s 2016. Yeah.

Josh: 00:20:58 Three years ago.

Kathryn: 00:20:59 I was almost 25 years old.

Josh: 00:21:00 Almost 25.

Kathryn: 00:21:02 Yes. And I had just launched my bestselling book and I was like, just like, I, it, I, it was when I was first making money, like I’ve been struggling and struggling and all of a sudden like I was doing it, you know,

Josh: 00:21:14 first making money. You mean like a couple hundred grand or like a couple Millie?

Kathryn: 00:21:18 No, no, no, no, no. Like, probably like, um, that year I pushed like almost six figures, but like, so I was like, and I had ’em because I was like bad at the internet. Um, this first year I actually had a full time job as well and this whole thing was just on the side. And so this was kind of the first year that I had out earned everything that I did, which is kind of the catalyst for my business things. But I started dating this guy and I realized that I had a voice online. I realized that I had some things that I could do. I’m starting to help other people get results and um, anyway, I meet this guy at a wedding reception actually. And um, I, we like instantly connected. I don’t know if you’ve ever had that with somebody where it was like a, like not love at first sight, but you like meet them and you’re like, Oh yeah, like that person’s going to be in my life.

Josh: 00:22:00 You’re cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kathryn: 00:22:02 And I’m like, almost immediately started dating and he was Epic. I mean, super intelligent and just like aggressively inquisitive, which is my love language. And um, yeah, I mean like he was amazing day one and he really liked, kept up the gig, which we love that for ourselves. And so we dated for about eight or nine months and we kind of started to have the first conversations of like, do we maybe want to like get married? And um, for me, I thought he was awesome. And so he actually brought up, he was like, Hey, like I’d like to talk about, um, like maybe what would it look like for us to get married? And I’m like, Oh yeah, for sure. Like I’m totally down. Like, let’s go. I leave away for this as the most of the day. And we met. And so we start having conversations, start having conversations, and then a few weeks later he goes, listen, like, actually I want to talk about maybe like our future a little bit more.

Kathryn: 00:22:50 And I said, yeah, for sure. And again, like I’m all, I’m all about this. I’m like, yeah, I’m like, I already have my, my dress picked out. Sure. And, um, and he’s like, I, uh, I actually have come to a conclusion. And I said, yeah, sure. What is it? And he goes, yeah, I have to say that I question your ability to mother because of your business aspirations and as like a little bit of context. I grew up as the second of eight children in my family and um, because I was the second oldest of eight kids, I like really helped raise a lot of them. And so like up until I left for college, the second of eight kids of eight,

Josh: 00:23:33 Oh my gosh,

Kathryn: 00:23:33 there’s a lot of them.

Josh: 00:23:34 continue.

Kathryn: 00:23:35 So yeah. So like up until I left college, I mean like, I was like changing diapers and doing homework and doing bass and getting clothes ready and iron and clothes for church and like, and um, and it was, it’s actually fine. Like my mom and I were doing like the numbers the other day, I was like, well, I’m like, how many diapers do you think I’ve changed my life? And, and we, I think I’m close to 44,000 diapers. So like people might have more kids than me, but I think I’ve out diapered a lot of people anyway. But the thing about it is like my mom, and again I could like go on a tangent about her, but she really is one of the most extraordinary women that I’ve ever met. And so me like playing, I think a pretty major role in like helping my siblings. It was, I never minded it. In fact, I actually really loved it because I’ve got to spend time with my mom. Oh, okay. And, um, and so like from a very early age and like if you met my mom, like the, the, the greatest adjective, she’s magical, like super connective and I’m like voracious learner.

Kathryn: 00:24:31 She’s just really incredible. And so anyways, so it, it, I had always wanted to be a mother and like my mother. And so, um, so maybe that comment that this boy said to me where wholly question, my ability to mother because my business aspirations, like I feel like maybe that would’ve like, not maybe other girls would’ve been like, Hmm, you’re dumb. You know, like, but I think for me, just because that was such a huge part of who I wanted to be and such a huge part of why I got into entrepreneurship in the first place. Like I was like, if I can figure out how to build a business online, then like maybe I could have significant impact inside of my home and out. Because like, even though I like adore my mother and in every way want to be like her, I knew the applications of my life.

Kathryn: 00:25:12 I wanted it to be different. Like I wanted to have something outside of my home and my children. And so anyway, so he said that to me and you know, I’m trying to be chill and like ask questions to make sure that he just wasn’t an idiot and said something, but that needed to be rephrased. Right. But, um, like, which happens, um, but he, no, he really meant it. And he’s like, no, listen, we get married, like your entrepreneurial pursuits. They’re done.

Josh: 00:25:37 Wow. Holy cow.

Kathryn: 00:25:39 I know. Here’s the boat I didn’t know. And he just said, listen, if you’re going to be a good mom, you can’t work. Like that’s just how it works. And again, he’s like coming from his own experiences of having a working mom and like all these sorts of things. And so anyway, so we kind of tried to figure it out for like six, seven more weeks and like we just could not get on the same page about that. And so we’ll alert that it ended. And so it ended and um, [inaudible].

Josh: 00:26:04 in two 2017 that it ended then?

Kathryn: 00:26:06 Hmm. Yeah. End of 2016. So we met beginning 2016. This is 2016.

Josh: 00:26:11 Okay. Okay.

Kathryn: 00:26:12 Yeah. And um, and so I think it, when I, when it ended and I looked at the situation logically, like in my head, I’m like, Oh, well he’s just an idiot. Like, he’s dumb, you know? But in my heart, um, I mean like, it was like good night came over for me. Like I was ready to sign up for a life with him. And so to have somebody that I loved and trusted that much, to look at what I perceive to be some of my greatest strengths as things that he wanted, it’s like literally kill and started. It was like brutal. And um, and it just sent me, it really did like send me into uh, a depression, which I had never, I, I, I’m like so grateful but that it was like the first time that I had ever felt like that and it’s there, the living daylights out of me.

Kathryn: 00:27:00 Yeah. I’m just like, uh, I’m just like a get back up on the horse kind of girl and I just like could not do it. And, and I think the reason why it was just so shattering for me was because I think like his comment combined with like the loss of him, like combined with like this like weird depression that I like came out of left field that I’d never experienced. I think it caused me to question almost everything. Like all of a sudden I was like, I was like, what is even like the purpose of marriage and do I even want that? And like, what’s the purpose of parenting or motherhood and is that even something I wanted? And then also like entrepreneurship, like is that something I want? What’s the purpose of that? Like is it vain for me to want this influence to like want to have more?

Kathryn: 00:27:43 And um, and also I was like, I don’t know. Like, I mean, I’m a super religious person. You’re a religious person. I was like, is this just like what I was taught to believe was the right thing? I do, I just want this cause I grew up seeing this and so I just like, I didn’t have the answers for those questions. And I think that’s what sent me like, just floundering was because I had been like so rooted in these truths and for whatever reason, like that experience, just like really exposed how, um, not strong the foundations where maybe,

Josh: 00:28:12 yeah. Can I, can I pause you right there because it’s such a key point. Okay. So totally different situation for me this past year. But you were about 25 when this happened.

Kathryn: 00:28:25 Yup.

Josh: 00:28:25 Right. So I’m 25 now. My birthday’s in February. All right. So February of this year, I turned 25 years old, March of this year, about a month in, a less than a week later, my brother died. And so when you talk about deep seated roots of, Hey, did I just grow up? Belief is the reason that I believe this just because, you know, I was taught this my whole life, right? That is like so much of what I’ve been going through the last eight months. And it is probably the single greatest reason that I’m going on this trip. And like, not to make this about me. Like I just want to like kind of draw some, because like for me, I grew up Christian, I grew up very, very, very conservative and like, I could go into some of the things that like we did, but like, I think you get it right. And for those of you listening, I’ve talked about it before and like, my parents have kind of come out of that now. Like that is certain extent and I love my parents to death.

Josh: 00:29:23 Yeah. Um, but like, how I grew up was almost like almost call it like, right. Uh, like, this is what you do, this is right, this is wrong. And so then I come out the other side, I’ve had all these experiences in my life and, and, and gone off and seen a lot of the world and then my brother dies and I was totally, totally, totally happy sitting in my little in Omaha, Nebraska, watching my bank account go up and watching my, you know, followers rise and never traveling, never doing anything. And then my brother died, right? And that, that moment he left behind a five year old son and a wife that was pregnant, right? So like that happens and I’m like, F you God. Like seriously? Like what is your deal? And so I got really, like I started to question a lot of those things and like for me, I 100% that there is a God and I 100% believe as of right now, that the God of the Bible is, is the true God.

Josh: 00:30:17 Right? But I like look at that and I go, yeah, I grew up believing that the Bible was without flaw, but I haven’t actually gone and searched that out. I grew up believing that every other way, you know, to have it in, there was no other way to have it, right. If you were a Jew or if you were, you know, Hindu or if you were Catholic, the, there was no other way except for Christianity. And so I started questioning all of these things and we talked about it at the beginning. Like when you build an audience, when you build a, you know, a, a movement, like you’ve got a base that in truth. And so I’m sitting here and I’m trying to, I had just launched think different theory and I had just was like, this is the direction, this is where I’m going.

Josh: 00:30:49 And then that happens. And I’m like, I could sit here and hustle and work and do everything that I, you know, I’m supposed to do. But at the end of the day, it’s all going to be nothing until I first go out and figure out what I believe. And figure out what I’m doing. And so like literally what you’re talking about here, while the [inaudible] big traumatic experience that caused that I think is, it obviously is very different. But I think the result of that of like questioning a lot of things is very similar in a lot of those ways.

Kathryn: 00:31:14 Oh, I like, I couldn’t agree more and like thank you for sharing that by the way. I think that’s like amazing and I think I feel really blessed honestly. Like I look back at that experience and Oh my gosh, what a gift. Like what a gift for me because it forced me into such a dark place in contrast to where I had ever been that. And again, so I’m probably like three months in to this like depression and again like suffocating and scared and like can’t get my feet underneath me again. And I don’t know what the catalyst was for this, but all of a sudden I was just like, I cannot take this anymore. Like I’m going crazy. And so I, what I did is also, and I just, I like went to my paper and I was like, okay, what questions do I need answered to help me to stop spinning?

Kathryn: 00:32:05 Like, what do I need to know? And so I wrote down those questions I asked, I said earlier where I was like, what’s the role of a parent or a spouse and do I want that? What’s the role of the parent and do I want that and what’s the role entrepreneurship. And so I, I like embarked on this huge study and um, like deep, deep study and that lasted about 18 months and like, and if you know me at all, like I’m like super thorough. So like not only like a deep study, like for my study on marriage for example, it ended up like I did a study and it ended up becoming like a 47 page long thesis, like organized and whatever. Cause I was like, I gotta figure this out anyway. But I was so grateful for that because I think in my studies I like stumbled upon three, like you say, searching for truths.

Kathryn: 00:32:49 For me, these were like three fundamental truths that got me back and, um, have kept me from to the ground ever since. But the first one came from the Bible and it’s in Genesis three 20 and for context like God’s created the earth, right? Adam and Eve here, they are living their best life there in the garden of Eden. And um, and what happens in Genesis three 20 is, um, God says to Adam like, what makes them Eve? And he goes, what shall you call her? And Adam goes, um, she, I’ll call her Eve because she’s the mother of all living. And as I was reading that, I realized the context of that is really important because he says that to her while they are still in the garden of Eden before she ever actually has children. So before Eve ever actually has children, she’s deemed the mother of all living.

Kathryn: 00:33:40 So I all sudden that was just like this like monumental shift for me because I thought, Oh my gosh, like if she was able to be deemed a mother before she ever had children than having a child. Like maybe there’s other characteristics of what de motherhood more than just do you have a child or do you know? And so that kind of, so that was like the first truth. I just was like, Oh my gosh. Like there are other qualifications for motherhood other than do you have a child or not? So then the second one was like, okay, well then what are these things? Like what does it mean to actually be a mother if it’s not solely rooted in, do you have a child or not? And so again, a deep study of scripture, a deep study of religious leaders all face, I read a ton of parenting books and like the general consensus amongst everybody came out to be that I’m a mother and I, and I think this is true for fatherhood as well, but like essentially a parent’s, um, primary responsibility is to nurture.

Josh: 00:34:34 Hmm.

Kathryn: 00:34:34 And when you do, when you look into nurture, it actually really just means two things. The first thing is to enable, which literally means to make April something they couldn’t do before they can now do. And the second thing is to provide opportunity. So enable and make April. Um, and so also, and I felt pretty grounded in that like okay, like that’s what a mother as a mother nurtures. They PR, they enabled, they provide opportunity. And so then I started to look into what is an entrepreneur and if this boy that I dated thought that entrepreneurship was so at odds with motherhood, then like what is actually entrepreneur? And you want to know what if you do a study of entrepreneurship, do you want to know what the role of an entrepreneur it is? It is to literally enable to make things that you couldn’t do before possible and to provide opportunity.

Kathryn: 00:35:17 And Oh my gosh, like I remember the moment that that became clear for me when all of a sudden I realized that Parenthood literally equals entrepreneurship. That what you do as a parent, the exact same role you play as a parent is the exact same role that you play as an entrepreneur. All of a sudden, like it just became so clear to me like I was like, Oh my gosh, like I don’t have to, whether or not I’m going to be a mother or entrepreneur and like I don’t even think like a mother and an entrepreneur is the right thing. It was just like, am I going to live up to the truth version of myself? Which in my opinion, based on my truce was like a nurturer. Like I was divinely created to be a nurture and, and I just, and I just realized that like whatever I did inside the walls of my four home right was going to be a propellant for my success outside the walls of my four home and vice versa, right?

Kathryn: 00:36:04 As an entrepreneur outside the walls or the four walls of my home, um, to do it inside. And Oh my gosh, that was just like so significant for me. Now like disclaimer, for anybody that’s listening, like I absolutely expect to get totally rocked the second child comes into my world. And like, I know that’s gonna happen and I cannot wait for it. Like I recognize I’m speaking as somebody that doesn’t have children. Like, yes, I’ve changed 4,000 diapers, but I haven’t had, like, I want to preface that in saying that like, I know I’m about to get totally rocked and I can’t wait for it, but, but I do really truly believe that an entrepreneur’s role and a parent’s role is one in the same. And so, um, that, that moment of stillness when I kind of stopped like you did and I had to get really clear, like once I like the, the moment of stillness actually started once that truth came clear for me.

Kathryn: 00:36:56 Hmm. Because once I had that truth clear, it was like, I also had the framework for what it was that I wanted to build and I, and I just took a second to pause and say, okay, is everything that I’m doing in line with this, these new truths that I believe to be actually true? And I’m, and am I building something that will enable me to become the most truest version of myself as a mother and the most true version of myself as entrepreneur. And so what I decided to do is, um, so at that point I was, I had an agency and I was building funnels and like if you talk to me for like any amount of time, you know, I geek out about this stuff, like I’m a freaking funnel freak. I think they’re so fun and they’re so genius. And um, but I realized that if I wanted to live up to kind of that highest version of being a nurturer, then I needed to play a little bit bigger than the agency roll.

Kathryn: 00:37:49 And, um, and I’m, again, I needed to have more influence, I think was actually the, the, the word that I thought. And so I thought, well, okay, cool. I actually love what I’m doing and what I’m doing is important in terms of helping people’s products and messages to reach a greater audience. I know how to do that. And the reason I was so good at it was actually because of design people that actually asked me to make a design course like over and over again. And so I’ll send kind of the stars aligned and I thought I need to switch from an, uh, primarily agency platform and diversify to be educational as well. And that kind of was the catalyst for actually building CF design school was um, because like the truth truths version, like the truth, truth reason why I did that is because I felt like that switch and starting to sell things more in an educational course program allowed me to enable and provide opportunity the most.

Josh: 00:38:47 That’s incredible. And I love how you like kinda tied that all together at the end of like how that, how that came about and came out of that. When you were going through this. At what point did your agency work stop for you to take time off?

Kathryn: 00:39:02 Um, that’s such a good question. So for me, I, um, so I, I actually still have agency now, so like I’ll do pretty big on clients. Most of my stuff is educational, but, um, but when, when I came upon that truth, I knew I needed a pivot. Like, do you know, have you ever felt that before? Where it’s like, it’s like you are not aligned and it’s hard to breathe, you’re showing aligned. And so I knew a major pivot needed to happen. So I literally, like I finished up the, the obligations and agreements that I had signed too. And then everybody else on my waiting list, this was around like, um, when was this? I can’t remember, but everybody else on my waiting list, I literally just wrote them an email and was like, Hey, listen, like I’m not taking clients for the next three to four months.

Kathryn: 00:39:47 Um, and I’ll be reevaluating whether or not I’ll be taking clients then. Um, but there’s no guarantee. So if you’re cool to stick around and wait with me, awesome. If not, and you have more pressing needs, I would love to introduce you to somebody. Yeah. And that’s literally what I did. And, um, and I just like, again, I finished my obligations and then IPC and I just, I just thought, I ha I have to go all in and making this pivot because what I was doing at that point, I didn’t know if it was aligned with these trues I had learned.

Josh: 00:40:14 Yeah, no, I think that’s super, super important. I think some people like want to use the excuse of like, Oh I need to pivot because I’m not in alignment as like shiny object syndrome. They’re like, try something new. And so I want to like preface that by saying like if you haven’t stuck with something for more than like, you know, a month or two maybe hopping to the next thing isn’t the greatest thing. But like if you’re, when you’re fully, fully in something and you’re going down a path and you know that like six months, a year into the future, this is not in alignment with what you want to be, you know, I, at least I do. And it sounds like you did as well.

Kathryn: 00:40:45 And I love the agency model. Like I still teach the agency model. I still always do the agency model. It helps you to learn and learn so many skills and it is a great means for process of elimination of what you don’t want to do. Yeah. Cause you’ve worked with so many different types of people. And so, um, so yeah, like I, this I’m not trying to like have a narrative on like agency model is bad. And I think that, I think

Josh: 00:41:08 the agency models, when you learn how to do an agent push a model correctly, I think that it makes coaching model and education model become that much like you, you’re that much better at it. Like I’ve seen a lot of people that try to start out with the education side of things and like there are exceptions and some people are just naturally gifted in teaching. But like when you deal with clients and you deal with the headaches that go with that and you learn how to problem solve those headaches, you can now go and problem those headaches that much better for your students and the people that you’re actually teaching.

Kathryn: 00:41:36 You have reps, you know, you put your reps in and yeah, I think it gives an a, I I know for me, right, like when I watch launch CF design school, like it was way less scary because it wasn’t like, Oh I hope people will buy into this concept. It was like, no, this is what’s actually working.

Josh: 00:41:53 It’s actually, yeah, and you have that there now I do have to ask and I will let you be the determiner of how much you want to share on this. I don’t want to, you know, pride you all, but like when you pivot and you know, you’re finishing off contracts, I should assume that there was a little bit of overlap there as far as like, you know, building in contracts. Maybe not. But yeah. How much financial risk going into something like this did you put out, because obviously there’s the, the living costs of everything going through it and proving a new concept. Like, yes, you can sell beta and yes, that can offset a lot of your costs or whatnot. But like typically speaking, I don’t, you know, I have no idea how much you had in savings or whatever or how much cost. But like what was the risk going into that where you like I’m cool with this all fails, I can fall back to the agency stuff. Where you all in on this like life savings balance or like where was that?

Kathryn: 00:42:42 Yeah, it’s such a good question. And um, I think, uh, I don’t really want to answer like, cause the answers kind of both I think. But I really was, I just knew this was where I needed to go. Yeah. And so I went like all in life savings. And so I had at that point cause, cause that was the thing too. Like I think, you know, there’s like for me, I’m like pretty pro risk, especially as like even three, especially even more three years ago, like 25 years old, I’m building this business.

Speaker 3: 00:43:12 I’m like living in a town, an hour South of salt Lake city where my rent is $400 a month. It’s like, you know what I mean? Like no kids, I have no dependence. And so for me, I’m like, let’s go. You know what I mean? And so like I was pushing a lot more, so I was pushing actually a lot into my business. So when I um, pause everything, I had probably like 30 K in the bank and um, which for where I was is like a lot of runway. Ah yeah, yeah. I mean you could beg, borrow and steal your away for a whole year on 30,000. So honestly, like I, so what I did for about three months is I just was still, and I just paused and, and like I got clear on the fact that I wanted to do an education platform, but like in that time I did like a ton of writing.

Kathryn: 00:43:59 I hired a coach to help me get clear. I like tried to like expand my mind. So I did things that like I’d never done before. It’s like intentionally make myself uncover. Like I did like improv classes and like I ran a tough Mudder. Yeah. Cause I was just trying to like get out of myself to get clear on what it was that I was trying to do. So after about those three months, I was like, no, I love this stuff too. I’ve paid my dues, I know how this stuff works.

Josh: 00:44:25 Right.

Kathryn: 00:44:26 I could do this. And so, um, then I spent about six months really building this and um, I don’t know, people have like in hindsight, do you wish you would had done a beta? And like, I don’t know, maybe, but I was really grateful because like B and I, and I think I had the Liberty to do this because I had had an agency model and I was a certified partner for you.

Josh: 00:44:48 There’s no question.

Kathryn: 00:44:49 So like I launched it, like when it launched it was ready to go, like it was ready to go. And um, anyway, but I do have to say like in hindsight, I think I probably could have launched it even like two months sooner than I did. I think I was a little scared, you know, like I think I love creation mode, but sometimes creation, like truly integrate like my, my, like even getting on this podcast today, I even love you Josh. Like and like, I think you’re so fun, so easy to talk to, but like I have to like gear up [inaudible] and then, but then once I’m here I love it when I’m on, I’m going to be like, I get confused about why I get anxious about doing that. But like my most comfortable days are when I just get to like be on my computer and just like build and pound out.

Kathryn: 00:45:29 So I have been doing it for like fourish months and so I was like pretty out of my right. You both have for awhile. Yeah. And so I was pretty out of my groove in terms of like, I was in building mode, not necessarily marketing mode. And so yeah, it took me a second. So I think I, um, I could’ve launched it earlier. I, I was definitely a little bit afraid. And so when I finally did launch, um, it ended up being like almost six months later, which was so three months of stillness, six months of building, I’m nine months out and like we were getting close to running out of money and, um, and uh, again, I probably could have played that a little bit differently, but in hindsight like it’s all worked out great. Yeah, fine. Yeah. Yeah. And again, it was just like, well, this thing’s got to work.

Kathryn: 00:46:14 And I knew, I knew it would work because I had also like tested it. Like, like people had paid me consulting fees to teach them design hacking. So like I knew I wanted this, I knew people want to pay for it, but anyway, so then for a, I launched it and um, we’ve been able to do super well like that first five months we, I got a a hundred people in the course, which is awesome. So 16 years, five months, and then I’m just getting so much smarter. Like just did a joint venture just a little bit ago and like, we did six figures in 90 minutes. So like we’ve been able to really, um, expedite because I am getting people in. But, um, and I think

Josh: 00:46:50 The people need to understand cause like there’s so many different ways to launch a program. So like reason. Yeah. So like recently we, I launched a program called selling with confidence and um, that launched two months ago. It’s not completed yet. Um, there is enough information in that program to get people results. And you know, one of the things that I’ve been studying recently is that the different types of offers, you have improvement offers and you have new opportunity offers, right? And by the time it’s all done, it’s going to be a new opportunity offer. But when I validated it, you know, the beta round that we did, it was funny because I didn’t know whether or not this program was going to sell. I, I knew that I could teach it really, really well. But I, you know, I’m starting thing, different theory. I’m like, I’m not going to be business mode all the time anymore.

Josh: 00:47:31 I believe that sales is a really, really good program. I mean sales is a really good skill to have, but I also believe systems is, and so I actually created like two little $97 offers and I list them both in the same funnel, like as two different options for upsells. And this one sold like four times better than the system was the one. So I was like, all right, here we go. There we go. Start it as like a little $97 upsell. I immediately upped the price. So, you know, a thousand is going to be nice, you know, by the time it’s all done, it’s gonna be like a $5,000 program. But we did that and in the first two months that we have launched, and once again, like I’m still building the program, right? Um, what we’re going to have most of it done. But before, uh, we leave, um, or before I take off on the world trip.

Josh: 00:48:13 But, um, [inaudible] student revenue in the last few months has just crossed over $300,000 in student revenue. Right. So, and it’s like the program’s not even done yet. Right. And so like you’ve got to know, I think that you know, you trust your gut with ultimately what what you’re comfortable with and what, you know best. I have launched over programs in the past. The first one I launched there is not, there’s no chance in the world. I would have released a program, my first program without having, I mean without it being done right. I was like, nobody does that. Right? But on the flip side, like so when you go and do these things, I think that’s like true with life as well. Like you’ve got to ultimately find what works for you. There’s a lot of ways to have success, but it’s interesting to hear like what you went through and the mental processes that you went through to get to that point. I think that’s super, super cool.

Kathryn: 00:48:54 Yeah. And well, and I think it’s so true, right? It just totally depends. I mean, I’ve launched programs since that literally all of a sudden there was like a need for it and I was like, done. I have the teams do this. I have the skill set to do this. I can literally put this in place by Monday. So like something somebody need was like more like a one-on-one kind of like strategy coaching program and I was like done. I know stuff like the back of my hand literally had the idea on a third, on a Wednesday, the next Monday I set up a whole week of phone calls and in that week I closed over $30,000 of stuff.

Josh: 00:49:24 Yup.

Kathryn: 00:49:25 It was just like easy done in a week. Whereas again, before it was like, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

Josh: 00:49:30 Right, right. How big is your team?

Kathryn: 00:49:32 How big is my team? So right now I have five people and um, and but then depending on projects I’ll bring in other people, but like five that are like always retainer. Um, I have somebody that does my traffic, I have two assistants. I have um, somebody that helps me with my branding and videography.

Josh: 00:49:47 Nice.

Kathryn: 00:49:48 And then I have like a project manager type and then ending on if we have kind of other projects. So like we have design hacking live coming up March of next year.

Josh: 00:49:56 Congratulations on that, by the way.

Kathryn: 00:49:58 Isn’t that awesome? It’s going to be,

Josh: 00:49:59 I’m so excited I, I will be there if I’m in the country. You better.

Kathryn: 00:50:04 Yeah, let’s go. It’s going to be,

Josh: 00:50:06 I don’t know if I’m going to be in the country or not otherwise I would have bought tickets already, but I just,

Kathryn: 00:50:11 I appreciate this plain hard to get Josh. Like it’s working. Like I’m like, is it gone, gone missing y’all gotta go know.

Josh: 00:50:16 I really not trying to play that. I, I’m legitimately saying like I watched the video, I’ve, okay so I’ve funnel hacked you entirely. Like I like basically day or two after I got home from off or mine, I was like, okay, she seems to know what she’s doing. Let me do this. And there’s a couple people and anytime I go to events I’ve looked for those one or two people that I can just like really, really learn from. And so I get back from off of mine and I like immediately sign up for your webinar. And I was like, I do not care what she says in the email. I’m not going to buy because I want to get all the way through the sequence, right? Yes. I get through and it’s like email after email after email and then the one where it’s like, do you want to hop on a call? And I was like, there is no way she’s offering phone calls herself. And that’s why I knew your team was bigger than just like one or two people. And I was like, okay, there’s gotta be something. So I was always curious about like how big that actually. Yeah.

Kathryn: 00:50:59 Yeah. Well what’s interesting is for the first while I took all the calls,

Josh: 00:51:03 I’m sure you did. And I still take, I mean I just sold, I’m so sad. [inaudible] I gotta be honest with you. I just sold my company and we had five people working for us.

Kathryn: 00:51:11 Yeah.

Josh: 00:51:11 So now I have nothing and like, don’t get me wrong, I have, I shouldn’t say that I have and who does all my customer service stuff and she’s amazing. And Carrie does my project manager,

Kathryn: 00:51:20 she helped facilitate this. Let’s go in now and.

Josh: 00:51:22 is awesome. She’s the sweetest awesomist lady. And, and if you’re listening and or Realty,

Kathryn: 00:51:27 we love you and.

Josh: 00:51:28 he’s awesome and we love you. And, um, but like for like we had a, a designer and a project manager and like they could just go and anytime there’s tech stuff, I was like, take care of it, take care of it, take care of it. And that’s like I’m the one that’s got to take care of it. And I know you’re an office fan, right? Like you like the office.

Kathryn: 00:51:42 Oh, of course.

Josh: 00:51:43 Okay. So I love the office. It’s my second favorite TV show. How I met your mother is still better, but um, there’s that thing in there when Michael Scott like knocks over all this stuff in the warehouse and he looks at Daryl and he’s like, well, I guess I want to clean it up. And he was [inaudible] I was like, that’s how I feel right now. I’m like, God, I have to clean this up. It has to fix it. So props to you though for having a, um, that, okay, we’re so much, there’s so many things I want to talk to you about. I’m really mad at you for not this, it’s not you. It’s me. I swear. Okay. This particular time, but I do want to, could we, cause we have rapid fire questions that we get to, we can get to that, but I kind of want to like pivot into, you’ve got design hacking alive coming up, which I’ll try to be at there if I can, if I’m in the country, I promise that my very, very, very best.

Josh: 00:52:31 Um, and um, I want to kind of know like, okay, what you’re doing blogging, right? Which awesome. By the way, I’m a huge fan of blogging. We’re about when I go travel, we’re going to do vlogs, which are going to be amazing. Yeah. Um, you’ve got design hacking live, you got click funnels, design school, which kind of run together, right? So like give us the six to 12 month vision or maybe a little bit further than that. Like, what’s next for you? And like how does somebody, Oh, actually let’s start with that. Just what’s next for what’s next?

Kathryn: 00:52:58 I think that’s such a good question. Yeah. Okay. Six to 12 month vision. I’m going to give you, it’s kind of twofold. Cool. Um, uh, so I’m gonna give you the big picture and then what that actually looks like on the ground. So big picture, what I actually love is automations and systems. Like that’s where my brain geeks out. Like that’s my number one best selling book is about, that’s what my book is about. Like my company’s actually called automate Academy and um, and so I actually do like a lot of consulting and in terms of like building systems and I anyway, I love that stuff. And so, um, and I actually like design hacking what it is, it’s a six step repeatable science that shows you how to design converting funnels that happened to also look good.

Kathryn: 00:53:38 Like it’s like it is automation to its core. It’s like you do this over and over and over again. And so it’s just an extension of automation. And so like right now I’m like pretty non in the funnel world as like the funnel design girl. And I think that’s awesome. I think like in the next 12 months or so, I probably want to try and shift a little bit more out. I’ve been really loud about my design hacking stuff just because I’m, it’s, it’s a [inaudible] it’s kind of just presented me as a, as an authority figure in that. So yeah, I think next 12 months will kind of be expanding out into more automation stuff because, um, especially like a lot of my design hackers, they’re ready to actually expand or like people like you, right? It’s like listen, like you, you kind of know the gist around funnels and like, honestly you could put, you can put your assistant through my program, but like, Hey, let’s, let’s talk the game of automation.

Kathryn: 00:54:27 Like let’s talk how to do this. And so I can serve a bunch bigger customer base. But um, and in fact it actually design hacking live like day one is all about design hacking. Day two is all about systems. How do you explode this thing? So I’m actually really excited, but so that’s kinda like the big picture of like end all be all is for the next 12 months is expanding to become like not only the design hacking group but the automation guru. So that’s what I’m really excited about. But for the next six months on it, like that’s 12 months, like six months. I’m like so happy to stay in my lane and like, um, I’ve, I’ve been trying to be really strategically loud about my specific product and the solutions I can provide, um, simply because uh, like it works and yeah, there aren’t the, the, the, the volume of people that should be in there aren’t.

Kathryn: 00:55:15 And I mean we have like a lot in there but not that should be. And so it’s been awesome and it’s just super amazing. Like you are offer mine. So you know, like Steven Larsen was like the second, you think you’re being too loud as the second that people start actually listening. And I’ve just experienced that like so much. Like I can’t, I can’t drop it right now cause I’m not allowed to. But like, like there are some like major announcements that I’m like, so hive to talk about in the next like two to three months in regards to like what’s happening for the design funnel design space in terms of like its relationship with design hacking that have happened solely because I’ve been strategically loud. And so like with my team, like we’ve literally been running what we call the smoke amount plan where it’s like we are so strategically loud with our content that like you just can’t hear everybody else, you just smoke about them. And, and again, like I love that lane and it’s such an awesome facilitator for building like really loyal customer bases who will bend, need my automation products. Um, and again, so the ones that are ready, I just do consulting with them one on one but then we’ll eventually start to build out like actual kind of bigger programs for that. So awesome. I’m really excited. So that’s the six to 12 month vision. Okay. I have one more question for you before we go

Josh: 00:56:24 to rapid fire questions at the end. Cause I want to be respectful of your time. I know you have to get off. Um, but one of the things that I talk a lot about on this show and just with my content and and whatnot is, um, timing, but more specifically like networking and the importance of networking and the importance of building relationships. I believe that sales is probably the most valuable skill that any single person can have. And I believe that networking is simply the ability to sell yourself well. Right? Um, and so yeah, I have you can do that and you’ll problem solve, build relationships, things of that nature. And one of my big, I don’t even know want to, I know if I want to call it a success story, but it certainly is that, if we want to call it that, is my relationship with Steve Larsen.

Josh: 00:57:06 Um, Steve is, Oh, a very, very good friend of mine. Um, and we are, um, like we became friends right when he left click funnels and I see this and I’m like, Steve is going to be really, really big. And I know that. So at that point before he was big, before he became the gooey as yet I became his friend. I dream 100 the crap out of him and I just kind of row that up and I’ve gotten a lot of business and a lot of exposure because of that. That was not my intention. Right. But like I genuinely took an interest in that and built that relationship at that point. Um, I believe that you are maybe not quite at the speed of Steve Larsen cause he had a little bit of unfair advantage but I believe that you’re going to be big, right?

Josh: 00:57:46 And that you are like, you know you’re going into this, you found your zone, you’re going to begin to do this. So for the listener there that’s listening right now, if they wanted to dream 100 you, if they wanted to know, I’m serious though. If they want it to be your friend and they wanted to go out there and make an impression on you, what, like what stands out to you? Like, what’s going to get your attention and be like, Oh, I’m going to keep my eye on that person.

Kathryn: 00:58:09 Okay. That is such an amazing question. And by the way, if you’re listening right now, you’re welcome. That is such an amazing question. Um, well maybe let me, uh, I’m going to give you something that’s happened to me that was a terrible example, something that I have to appreciate because I can feel the effort but it wasn’t that effective. But it’s like, but it’s like you’re grateful, you know, and that’s something that actually works.

Josh: 00:58:31 Okay. I’m just reminding you, we do have rapid fire questions though. So

Kathryn: 00:58:34 this is going to go down in 30 seconds. Perfect thing that doesn’t work is if somebody just pitches me their thing immediately like, Hey, just like can you do this? And, and if, if it doesn’t even relate, like if I don’t even know them, right? Like I’ve done joint ventures with people. I’m so happy to sell products that relate to my customer base within there. But like, if I don’t know who you are, like I just, I don’t have the time to go figure out who you are. So like, can you just comment on my stuff and like post relevant things, like just be in the space. So that’s number one. Just like, just don’t come out at me too hot. That’s number one. Number two thing where it’s like you, you love them cause you feel the effort but like doesn’t work. Right. It’s like, um, like again, like even just the other day like yesterday, like, and such a good guy and if you’re listening such a good guy, right?

Kathryn: 00:59:18 Like, but sent me this $250 audio thing with no, no. And I’m like, I’m confused. Like, like my whole thing is like what? Like you’re giving me gifts, which is like a very Dana Derek, things to do, which like I’m very appreciative, but like I don’t understand what you want from me, you know? So it’s a little tricky. The third one, and I think this is like pretty, um, counterintuitive, but I go to a ton of events. I know you go to a ton of events and um, I think because just the nature of it, everybody’s always posturing like, hi, I’m so and so I do this, this, this and this. And they like trying to posture the whole time and I have only like I have like I went to a two comma called accident, um, and I, when I was at the event, there was only one person who didn’t try and posture with me and it was a couple and their names are Adam and D and Brianna floors.

Kathryn: 01:00:05 They’re amazing. You should go follow them and the way that they didn’t posture. And you can tell people that are chill with themselves and who are not, not, not a false confidence, like truly certain in who they are because they don’t talk about themselves. Yeah. Like immediately they sat down and they like Kathryn, like how are you like having, tell me like I’ve seen a little bit what you do on the internet. I’ve been so fascinated. Tell me more about what you do. Great. Awesome. Like what does this look like for you? Amazing. Tell me about your background. And like it was the first person that had shown an interest in me instead of trying to like get something from me. And so like, even now, like literally he wrote me today and he’s like, Hey, like I have a ton of huge funnel gigs for you.

Kathryn: 01:00:39 Do you want them or do some of your students want them? Right. That’ll end up being tens of thousands of dollars and like what an awesome way to network and just really, really amazing. And so like again, I think that probably a lot of people might answer like, Oh, send me X, Y, and Z. But for me, I think it’s like a greater principle of like, how do I give rather than take.

Josh: 01:00:58 Yeah.

Kathryn: 01:00:59 For me, like again, my biggest love language is like aggressive inquisitiveness in a way that’s like meaningful. So yeah, I think, um, but I mean I am, I’m so eager to help and connect just because people have been so nice to do that with me. Yep. But just be classy about it, I think.

Josh: 01:01:17 Classy about it. Yeah. B class, I’ll just send you random $250 audio.

Kathryn: 01:01:21 Yeah. But like, I think you’re an awesome example, right? Like you’re keeping me in your life. You’re like, check out this drone. And we like geek out about blogging over Voxer and like,

Josh: 01:01:28 yeah, that’s true. I.

Kathryn: 01:01:29 t’s like, that’s awesome. I’m like, this is a cool dude. And like obviously I’m like, cool. Like I would trust you to do anything with you because you’re normal human. So.

Josh: 01:01:38 look at that guys. We made a friend. I met a friend.

Kathryn: 01:01:40 Yes. Yeah,

Josh: 01:01:42 I have friends. Some people questioned whether or not I have friends.

Kathryn: 01:01:44 You nailed it. You ask.

Josh: 01:01:45 I have one friend that, uh, is publicly willing to say that were forgot to.

Kathryn: 01:01:49 I gotcha. I appreciate that.

Josh: 01:01:52 Okay. Um, that was awesome. Let’s move to rapid fire questions. Everybody. Um, we do just a couple of fun questions, whatever. Then we end one or we end the podcast with one question that we ask every single person that comes on here. So here’s the moment of truth for you.

Kathryn: 01:02:08 Okay.

Josh: 01:02:09 Have you ever listened to one of my podcast episodes?

Kathryn: 01:02:12 I love, I love you so much, but no, I haven’t.

Josh: 01:02:14 Okay. At least you’re honest. No. Okay. It’s actually probably good because if you haven’t that way, have no way to prepare for that final question, which is really good. Yeah, we’d like to be [inaudible]. Okay. You fly a lot, you travel a lot. Favorite airlines to fly on?

Kathryn: 01:02:27 Oh Delta. Hands down.

Josh: 01:02:29 I love Delta. That’s my favorite one as well. [inaudible] express platinum card is awesome. Okay. Um, are you a car person at all? Like do you have like a favorite sports car that you want or no.

Kathryn: 01:02:38 Okay. My dream car is a 1960s [inaudible] Volkswagen van turquoise on the bottom. White on top, white interior leather. Anything other than that I could care less.

Josh: 01:02:47 Oh my God,

Kathryn: 01:02:48 I know that’s hard for you. In fact, I just know,

Josh: 01:02:50 you know what’s hilarious is that’s like my dad is like obsessed with Volkswagens.

Kathryn: 01:02:55 Oh gosh,

Josh: 01:02:56 Kyes. With them.

Kathryn: 01:02:57 So I just run the, I just want to click funnels, dream cardboard and so you have to like go like they have like a certain.

Josh: 01:03:03 graduations round of applause.

Kathryn: 01:03:05 So they have like an approved list of cars you can get and they’re all like, not, I mean a Tesla’s like sick, like a Tesla sexy, like maybe in my one Tesla day, but like it’s all these like muscle cars and like I could care less. I’m like, I’m like, I just want to Volkswagen vans. I literally actually just likes the dangled and I’m like, listen, I just want the cash. Like can I get the cash? And so they’re actually gonna give it to me and I’m like really excited about. So.

Josh: 01:03:25 congratulations on that. But I’m just throwing it out there. Yeah, you could, you can give me the Tesla.

Kathryn: 01:03:33 Yeah, sure. Yeah, we just friends, right? We did a threat.

Josh: 01:03:36 You just establish that. So I’ll, I’ll take it. I mean, you got till March to decide. Actually, here’s the deal. You give me the Tesla, bring it to design hacking live and I will 100% for sure that I had.

Kathryn: 01:03:49 I feel, I feel like this relationship turns really weird. Um,

Josh: 01:03:55 keep it, keep it going here. Um, dream like bucket list item that you absolutely have to do. Somebody before you die.

Kathryn: 01:04:01 Um, before I die, I am like a theater buff and so like I want to do some atha the next year, but I want to go to New York city for like two weeks and literally just go to the theater every single night. I go do awesome Broadway tickets, just like, like third row every single night and just decal.

Josh: 01:04:18 That’s awesome.

Kathryn: 01:04:19 Yeah.

Josh: 01:04:19 All right. Um, well I was gonna say, what’s your like guilty pleasure thing but I think that that might’ve just answered it is.

Kathryn: 01:04:26 theater infomercials and hallmark movies. So if you want some guilty president pleasures, love infomercials. Like you know, like the 30 minute ones I’ll play late at night. Like do.

Josh: 01:04:34 you like those?

Kathryn: 01:04:35 I just think they’re so fascinating. I’m like, I’m just fascinated that like obviously maybe they work for someone. I just, I just love to watch them.

Josh: 01:04:42 That’s it. All right. All right Kathryn Jones, everybody,

Kathryn: 01:04:46 here we go. You’re like, maybe it’s going to be, I don’t want to be your friend and.

Josh: 01:04:49 no, no, no, not like that. But that is a little weird, but I get what you’re saying though, cause I like to, I like listening to radio ads and I’m like, yeah, this actually works. So, okay, last question for you. We ask everybody fast forward to the end of your life. You are on your deathbed and everything that you’ve done, every person that you have come and talk, talked with all your fame, your money, everything, it’s all gone. However, every single person that you have, uh, influenced or touched either directly or indirectly in your whole life, you get to leave them with one final message. Word of wisdom. What is that message?

Kathryn: 01:05:25 Be ruthless in making decisions that help you to stay aligned with the truest version of yourself.

Josh: 01:05:31 Be ruthless in making decisions that help you stay in alignment with the truth version of yourself.

Kathryn: 01:05:37 Yeah.

Josh: 01:05:38 All right. Oh, there it is. All right ladies and gentlemen, Kathryn Jones. Round of applause. Thank you so much for coming on. Um, I really, I really am bummed that you had to go because we could probably talk for another hour or two on just crazy stuff, but we’ll maybe we’ll do it again, um, soon. Um, any last words from you and I want to give you, I for, I’m so sorry I totally forgot about this cause we were in conversation. I want you to like pitch yourself or like tell people where they can find you. Like I liked you that earlier, but where can people find out more about you?

Kathryn: 01:06:06 Totally. If you have a funnel that’s not converting, or you want to learn how to design funnels that convert and sell them, that’s what my product’s all about. If you just want to follow along, Josh is a Vlogger, I’m a Vlogger. @MsKathrynJones on Instagram is where I’m at, or at Automate Academy on YouTube, but yeah. Honestly, I think that’s… that’s where you can come check me out. Instagram is probably my favorite place, so come… @MsKathrynJones

Josh: 01:06:31 @MsKathrynJones. We will link it down below. We will also link… ClickFunnels Design School down there. Watch her webinars. Actually super, super good and entertaining. It’s unlike any webinar you’ve probably ever watched. I do have to ask super, super fast. When did your name change on Instagram?

Kathryn: 01:06:44 When Russell Brunson messaged me and told me to change my name on Instagram.

Josh: 01:06:48 When Russell Brunson tells you, you hashtag do what Russell says.

Kathryn: 01:06:50 Literally. He’s like, “I bet your engagement would go up a billion percent if you change this.” Within 30 seconds I’m like, “Done.”

Josh: 01:06:57 Awesome. Kathryn, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate your time. Guys, as always. Hustle hustle. God bless. Do not be afraid to think different because that is what free thinkers do. It’s what we do. We think different. We do it different, we understand things different, and that’s what’s gonna allow us to change the world. I love you all and I will see you on the next episode. Take it easy fam.Peace.

Outro: 01:07:15 Yo, what’s up guys? You’ve been listening to The Think Different Theory with myself, Josh Forti, which I like to call, “A new paradigm of thinking”, and real quick, I got a question for you. Did you like this episode? If you did, I want to ask a huge favor. See, the biggest thing that helps this podcast grow, and that will spread this message of positivity and making the world a better place, is if you leave a review, a rating and subscribe to the podcast. What that does is, it basically tells the platforms that this is out on, that you like my stuff, and that I’m doing something right. So if you could take like three seconds out of your day and subscribe, leave a rating, and a review, I would be forever grateful for you. Also, I want to hear from you. I want to know your feedback, your ideas, and your questions for future episodes. So be sure to hit me up on Instagram in the DM @JoshForti or via email