Think Different Theory

“The Trump Dilemma: P2”: How To Move Forward As A Society In The Era Of Trump – With Julie Stoian


How do we find middle ground in the world of Trump?

How do we collectively as a society work together to move forward?

While Julie Stoian and I disagree on politics (In a nutshell I support Trump and she doesn’t) she is someone I have an immense amount of respect for.

In Round 2 of “The Trump Dilemma” we aim to focus not so much on Trump, but rather on how we as a society can come together and move forward.

This is an important conversation that we as a society need to be having.


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February 10th, 2020


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Disclaimer: The Transcript Is Auto-Generated And May Contain Spelling And Grammar Errors

Josh (00:00:00):
What’s up guys. Welcome back to another episode of Think Different Theory. My name is Josh Forti, and wow! Week one is in the books. By the way guys, I have to start off this by saying a huge, huge thank you to everybody that tuned in and that listened last week. We had a crazy week one. I mean like it blew past any and all of my expectations. We had over 18,500 views and downloads of the podcast last week, which was just phenomenal. And, I really, really appreciate that, and I’m not gonna spend too much time on that, because I don’t want to keep our next guest waiting. But seriously, thank you. It was amazing, amazing. The more ratings, the more reviews, the more subscribes we get, the more we can push this message of thinking different, and changing the world to the masses. Okay. Let’s dive in.

Josh (00:00:42):
Guys, as you know… I mean, I’m about as American as they come. I have an American flag in the background. I’ve got my USA hat on as I’m prepared to just have an interview. The bottom of it here has got the American flag. Like, I love America. And, I think one of the things that I learned in traveling, is just how much I love America, and how I will defend my freedom, whatever that means, to the ends of the earth. And I really, really believe in capitalism. However, we are at a time in our country of great… I think divide would be an understatement. Of great disagreement, and to the point where we can’t even have civil discourse anymore. And so, I wanted to bring on for round two of the Trump dilemma, someone that I respect probably more than anyone in the political space, and she’s not even in the political space, she’s just very well-informed in that space, for round number two, on this. Julie Stoian, welcome back to Think Different Theory. Thank you so much for coming on for round two.

Julie (00:01:38):
Yeah. Thanks for having me. I questioned my sanity a little, because I don’t typically talk politics publicly, but I love talking politics with you, so I was more than happy to come back.

Josh (00:01:49):
Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that. Okay. We’re gonna dive right in, but I want to set the tone here for those people that are tuning in, and listening, and we’re going to be blasting this out on the replay and whatnot. I want this to be a discussion between you and me. And, I think that, you know, if there’s one thing that I’ve learned, is when I am deep in a conversation with someone, and it’s a really, really good conversation, typically my mind tends to ask really good questions that a lot of people are thinking. And, I want this to be a real open, honest conversation where I’m not so much taking a side, but where I am genuinely asking questions, because I’m going to give you time real quick, and I’m going to take time as well, just to really quickly recap where we both stand politically, but I don’t want that to be the focus.

Josh (00:02:32):
I want there to be context around that. And then I want to dive in and say, ‘Okay. How can we as a society collectively move forward in the era of Donald Trump? And, in the era…” I… I don’t want to make it all about Trump, but I think it’s really, really difficult not to talk about the state of America without talking about what he has done with that. So, I do want to kind of give it over to you. Just, could you quickly recap for our audience, where you stand politically, however you want to do that, take as much or as little time as you want to do that with. And then I’ll quickly recap my side of things, and then we’ll go ahead and dive in.

Julie (00:03:06):
Yeah. Awesome. So I actually, I follow politics mainly because I’m a credibly interested in social justice initiatives. So I don’t, I don’t pay as close attention from a, you know, economic standpoint, even though I, I, I’m aware of it. But from a social justice standpoint, from a psychology of culture standpoint, I do pay attention. Um, I am registered Republican. I would definitely say I’m a very moderate Republican. Um, people think I’m a Democrat and I do, I do tend towards more liberal thinking when we’re talking about social justice. But when we talk about [inaudible], when we talk about capitalism, and we talk about that kind of stuff, I’m very, very much Republican. When we talk about Donald Trump, the conversation changes in so much as I feel very strongly and passionately that Donald Trump as a human, as a leader, as president of the free world is doing far, far more grave damage than he is good. Even though I can recognize the good that he has done for the country, um, in a very classic ends justifies the means kind of way. But from a psycho psychological perspective, from a cultural perspective and from a social justice perspective, uh, and from a human perspective, I am deeply concerned about what he’s doing to our country.

Josh (00:04:33):
Okay. So that would accurately describe, you would say where you stand politically in a nutshell,

Julie (00:04:38):
politically and [inaudible]

Josh (00:04:39):
in a nutshell. Okay. Uh, and guys will have, I’m sure more clarification on that as we go forward and you’ll, you’ll get to know her a little bit better. Now I on the flip side and you know, in full transparency here, I have Ben, if you have never seen anything of me before, this is the first time that you’ve turned into the show. You’re in for a good one. Um, but I have been very vocal in my support of Donald Trump and, um, I am a registered Republican. I have, I grew up in a conservative household. I don’t know if my parents would even say that they are Republican. Um, but definitely conservative. Keep in mind my mom did not vote for Donald Trump. All right. And I was, I was very upset at her at the beginning when it first happened. I understand maybe a, her reasoning a little bit more now, but, um, I mean I, I grew up Christian conservative and so Republican naturally I would say probably comes with that.

Josh (00:05:28):
Um, but I am definitely a free thinker and I would say that I am probably more libertarian than anything else, but definitely I am pro Trump on policy. I in no way, and I’ve kind of come out and clarified some comments of where I stand on things, but I am in no way, not a Trump supporter. All right. I disagree with where he is at on a from a character issue. And I disagree with how he treats certain elements of, of people in the media, but from a political standpoint, um, I voted for him. I will probably vote for, I can’t see why I wouldn’t vote for him in 2020. Uh, and my reasoning behind that, and I want to be very clear, I am not a blatant Trump supporter, meaning I don’t support everything that he does. But, um, the, my reasoning behind it and one of the things that I really want to get into on here is I look at the political system in America as a fundamentally flawed society that we’re living in.

Josh (00:06:18):
I think that we are on a road to having to have massive reset. And I think that as of now, and this could change as of now, corruption is there and it is, I don’t see a way of fixing the system. I see a way of like we need to fundamentally reset. And I don’t know if anybody of true good character could beat someone on the left. And I don’t like the left because I think the left is, I, I shouldn’t say that. I don’t like the leftist ideas. I like all people equally. I think that, you know, people are inherently not good or bad. I think that we’re, you know, have some good, some bad in us. But my thing is, is like Donald Trump came in and did everything right on a policy standpoint from economically, militarily, and to help get us back on track. Even though I do think the system is going to collapse. So he is my lesser of two evils that I happen to really, really agree with on policy. Hopefully that makes sense there. And would you say that I probably saw summarize myself well there Julie?

Julie (00:07:21):
Um, yeah, I do. Um, I do think you summarize yourself well after our very late night conversation in Nashville, you pretty much had been consistent on that, on, on that road.

Josh (00:07:32):
Okay. So, and so for those of you that are out there that are like, Oh, Josh has changed his tone on Trump. No, I’m still gonna vote for him. I think he’s an idiot. Okay. Well, yes I have. I have, but I have not, I am not recanting things that I said in the past. I am not going back on, on, on that. I want to be very clear cause I’ve got a lot of heat from Trump supporters when I came out and did that video and messages and texts and people freaking out and be like, you have no backbone. You’re going back on it. I’m like, listen people, all right. I still liked the guy and I guess let’s dive into this here. Okay. I want to start with the impeachment issue just because it’s, I think it’s going to set the tone for kind of things moving forward and, um, how things were handled.

Josh (00:08:13):
Okay. So from a Trump supporters perspective and, and, and dare I say from a, I don’t know, an unbiased is not the right word, but from a third party perspective, let me take my Trump loving jeans out of me for a second here. I look at what happened in the impeachment as the PR, the actual process that went down. Let’s not look at what was, what was actually accused here for a second. Let’s look at the process of what went down. Starting with, uh, how everything was handled in the house, ending with Nancy Pelosi ripping up the, the, the, uh, state of the union. Like I saw that. And by the way, for everybody listening, I think Republicans are freaking out way too much. Like the whole, the names of yada yada. We’re all, you know, us soldiers where I’m like, chill out people. I mean, if Trump would have done that, you would have been cheering him on.

Josh (00:09:11):
All right, so like a double standard there. A little bit, but at the same time, certainly it wasn’t classy. I feel like how the Democrats have gone about with Donald Trump and how the media has gone about with Donald Trump is wildly, wildly unfair and wildly, wildly uncharacteristic of anyone that would genuinely want to actually have collective peace moving forward or working together moving forward here. So I want to kind of turn it over to you and just kind of let you touch on that. And, and I guess my question is is like yeah, I know you disagree with Donald Trump and yeah, I know that there’s people on the left that don’t like him, but like has the left really done anything that would ask for anything else?

Julie (00:09:56):
I’m not sure what your, what your question is exactly like me has a left on anything. I don’t see, I’m not representing the left. So I’m curious what your question.

Josh (00:10:05):
I guess my question is is like yeah, what, what could it, what could cause you, you support the impeachment, right?

Julie (00:10:13):
Yeah. I think, I think we’ve replaced clutter political corruption with like, you know, co complete corruption. Like, he’s not a politician, but he’s as corrupted a F like

Josh (00:10:25):
so how, how would you have gone up? How would you have gone about and done the, the impeachment process?

Julie (00:10:31):
Okay. That’s an interesting question. So I think, I think the impeachment process of course was a partisan process. I don’t know how you would avoid it. I would say that the house was partisan. I would say the Senate was partisan, um, to ask a political system not to be partisan. This is a difficult thing at this point in the game. There’s no question in my mind that Donald Trump is leveraging every opportunity that the presidential seat offers him to gain as much personal, like personal, like leverage as he can. He has proven in his world and his life from all of the lawsuits in the fraud fraud that he has done, that he will go, he will stop at nothing to gain whatever he needs to gain in the business world. And so to think it’s like to think like believe people when they show you who they are like so as a man thinks so he is put an Apple seed in the ground and expect a peach tree rise.

Julie (00:11:31):
Like there is no question in my mind that he’s, he is finding where all of the boundaries are for personal gain and going to that line and stepping over it to see what happens. I mean he’s like as classic a narcissist as you could possibly find in addition to being an incredibly smart businessman. So on that premise alone, we know that he is using power of his office for personal gain like we know he is. That is, that is completely like factually clear from just the, even the words out of his own mouth. I think that if I were dealing with the impeachment, I was number one, I thought the Democrats were kind of pansy ish. I thought that they didn’t go for the big guns when they should have and they were trying to like step lightly and not hurt their chances and the next election, I think that I wish that they would have frickin held his ass to the fire on in court, getting John Bolton’s testimony, getting all those testimonies.

Julie (00:12:27):
I understand they said that if they had to wait that it would take forever, but I feel like they sold out. I feel like the Democrats sold out just as much as the Republicans sold out. Um, because there’s just no question in my mind that he is abusing the presidential office. Like, I mean, it’s like, that’s like is the sky blue? Of course he is. Um, and I was very, very frustrated watching the whole thing unfold and watching all of those witnesses come in and all of the evidence that comes out and just looking at it like, are we, are we living in an alternate reality right now? And of course the news media has their own agenda. They just, you know, Trump has made the news trendy again, make news trendy again. Could be another tagline. So, but to say like, Oh, it was partisan. Look, public is just as partisan as the Democrats work. Like if we strip all of the partisanship away, the man who is in office is a corrupt, not good leader, who is destroying the morale and culture of our country and is abusing his office for personal gain. And we all know this. So yeah, I supported a patient, but I thought the Democrats were whizzes.

Josh (00:13:42):
And briefly, why do you, why do you think that they didn’t, let me play the, let me play the devil’s advocate here. Okay. The, I mean, you listen to Sean Hannity and the people on the right, which not even I am a huge fan of Sean, right? Like, I think he’s a little,

Julie (00:13:58):
can listen to it with like,

Josh (00:14:01):
I am much more of a, I like Glenn Beck. I like Ben Shapiro from a factual standpoint. Sean Hannity is a little bit too emotional, raw, raw, and name calling for me. But the argument on the other side, and I’m, I’m genuinely curious about your thoughts on this. The argument on the other side says, Nancy Pelosi is not dumb. Nancy Pelosi knows that if she wants to beat Trump, like you cannot for one second, take your foot off the gas because you know he’s not going to write and he will. If he wins, you will be destroyed. Right? Like, and I’m not, I’m not playing good or bad here. I’m just saying, here’s the reality. So if, if Nancy Pelosi knew this going into and she’s the, you know, the speaker of the house, she’s the leader here going into the impeachment, you can’t possibly think that trying to impeach Trump and losing is going to help your chances of winning. I mean, that’s just to empower Trump even more. Why not go bring out the big guns? Why not go absolutely all and do the due diligence. I mean, if it’s gotta be drug out two, three, four, five months, who cares if you’re going to be all in on this, why not go through and get the testimony to do that? Why not? Unless, unless the ultimate side and the, the argument to get that is, unless it doesn’t exist. So like,

Julie (00:15:12):
no, no, no, no. I think there’s two reasons. I think there’s two reasons. I think, number one, I think that she was nervous to step in the ring with Trump. Who the hell would service the step in the ring with Trump? Right? So that’s the first thing. I think she was nervous to get in the ring. I think she’s been in the game and political enough, long enough to know that if this doesn’t end well, she doesn’t end well. Like I think she was nervous about it. I think there was some subtle, there was some pressure from, from the Democrats, America, like, I mean some of America, not all of America. Um, his behavior, uh, like other Democrats, all that kind of stuff to, to move on this. So I don’t know that she was as armed and ready as she maybe wanted to be.

Julie (00:15:58):
So I think that’s the first thing. I think the second thing is that when it came down to voting and all of the talk about, um, you know, if they were going to have a partisan vote or a nonpartisan go, I think it played it, they played it safe because they knew if they went for the big guns that they might lose more Democrats and they needed to get the impeachment pass. So I think she went path of least resistance to get the, the, the non-criminal ones on the articles of impeachment to get it passed so that the, at least the Democrats didn’t lose face on that side of it. I think that she was totally thinking politically. I think the Republicans are thinking politically. I think they all are. I mean, I don’t disagree with you that there’s political corruption, but if you strip all that away and just use Donald Trump’s Twitter feed, you know, you, you’ve got all you need. Like, I don’t understand, you know, we can talk about the crazy media all the live long day, let’s just go right to the worst is now, you know, so,

Josh (00:16:55):
which Twitter has given us. And I think that, uh, from a once again from a third party bystanders look here, I think that the biggest thing that I hear for those moderate Republicans or those people that, Hey, yeah, I vote for Trump, but I don’t really like him type deal. I think the number one thing that most people say that they don’t like about him is his Twitter feed. Um, and the fact that he just goes off on, on Tangie

Julie (00:17:17):
well, because it’s exactly the character of the man that is in our white house.

Josh (00:17:22):
And, and to be fair guys, I agree with that. Right? And you’re coming from someone who’s gonna vote for him. I get it. I wanna I wanna kind of take a couple steps forward here because I think we just need to talk about it in this particular context here. Okay. For me and for a lot of the people that I’ve talked to that are, ha, I don’t like Trump, but I have to, I mean, I’m going to vote for him because there is not a better option on the left. So let me, let me, I want to hear your thoughts on this and you can, you can take this one of two ways and I’ll let you kind of figure out where you want to go with it here. But I don’t like socialism. Okay. I, the idea of socialism and I talked about this, a funnel hacking live with you is like, let the world burn

Julie (00:18:11):
mean. I think that’s a really, really, really dramatic statement, rather the end of the planet than socialism. I mean, I get what you’re saying, but like I hate socialism too. Like I’m, I’m, I don’t have a capitalist pig shirt, right? But I love capitalism, right?

Josh (00:18:28):
Right. So I look at my alternate options and I go, I mean, let’s look at the front runners in the democratic party, Joe Biden, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and maybe question Mark, maybe Pete booted Puente, Atez, whatever. However you pronounce his last name. Okay. So like maybe those, right. So I look at those and I go, okay. Um, from a Donald Trump there, there’s two sides of every politician, right? There is the social side. Well, there’s three sides. There’s the character side of things. There’s the, um, economic policy side of things, and then there is the social side of things, right? And I go from a Donald Trump standpoint, literally from an economic policy standpoint. As of now, I don’t have any complaints. We’ll see that out.

Julie (00:19:20):
Yeah. Well, the, the pain, the pain that I feel right now watching the Democrats be the world’s most horrible marketers, is that I’m just looking at it going the like there, the democratic party is gonna fail. It’s just like, it’s so bad right now. I mean, and I have things that I like about each, about each, like each person candidate. I do not want Elizabeth Warren to be president, so help us God. However, I love the way she talks right? To the guy who made the comment about marriage at that town hall. And we saw her humor and I was like, Oh, right on. But I don’t want her to be president. Like, aye,

Julie (00:20:04):
I don’t know what 2020 is going to bring, but I know that whoever ends up in the oval office is going to reap all of the, the terrible consequences of what Donald Trump has sown into this country spiritually, character wise for the next four years. Like the next four years are going to be a total. Just, you know, what kind of show whether Donald Trump is in office or whether someone else is in office. So the only thing that I can think of right now, because the Democrats don’t show me a big shining flag of hope, is that maybe with the destruction of what Donald Trump has done to the Republican party, there may rise from the ashes, a new Republican party that actually has a head on his shoulders that actually takes into consideration this thing called moderation and

Josh (00:20:53):
does something different, but couldn’t, but couldn’t. One argue? I mean, I mean, yeah there’s divide, but like couldn’t one argue that the Republican party is probably more United than ever right now behind Trump?

Julie (00:21:05):
Kind of like in the same era as Hitler? Yeah, sure. I think I like, I read this book, it was amazing. It’s called gaslighting America. I think that the Republican party is very United, not under a common mission and movement, but under a culture of fear. So I don’t if you call that union,

Josh (00:21:27):
what do you mean by that? Like what do you mean behind a, a fear of Trump, a fear of what Trump is making the other side out to look like. I mean like

Julie (00:21:36):
the fear, I think it’s a fear of their own political future because Donald Trump has drawn a line in the sand and made it very clear that you cannot be half in or half out. You are either Trumpism or you are out and so every Republican, and I honestly like I have, I have a level of empathy for the position that they’re in. Even though sometimes I want to screen is that they’re in this horrible, no one situation where if they want to stand on their own two legs and having their own opinion that disagrees with Donald Trump, they have to face almost certain exile or they have to go all in. Or they do what a lot of them are doing, which is avoiding the media silence, trying to demonize the media because they don’t want to open their mouth and say something that’s going to cause, like that’s what Trump has done to the party

Josh (00:22:26):
D do you think that there is hope or a case to say, okay, but Donald Trump’s going to be out in four years if he gets reelected, he’ll be out in four years and then and then I can come back and then the, the hard line in the sand isn’t going to be there as much? Or do you think that Trump has completely gotten rid of that option?

Julie (00:22:50):
Um, I always think there’s hope. I can’t, I can’t imagine a world that doesn’t have hope. So I hope for it. I fear that Donald Trump isn’t leaving the scene in four years and to go on record, I would not be afforded that. I would be against that. So yeah, I mean, I don’t mean, I don’t mean like trying to twist the law to like, you know, get elected for a third term though. Some of the craziest of the crazies are trying to see that idea Mark my words. That is the first form of manipulation as you throw an outrageous out idea out there and then you back it up and you say, Oh, I didn’t say it. I just heard meanwhile slowly seeding this idea. So, but I don’t, I don’t know that Donald Trump is doing that, but I know that his most ardent cult-like supporters for sure, but even after next four years, like what’s going to be left in its wake and what is Donald Trump going to continue to do with his, uh, ridiculous amounts of power? I dunno, I, I hope that we can write the course, but I don’t know.

Josh (00:23:57):
Okay. So I want to go back to the, okay, so what’s the alert? Our alternative here? So you said, Hey, I don’t think Elizabeth Warren’s going to win the nomination. All right. I, I, I’m just out of curiosity, who do you think is going to win the nomination or do you know or do you have an idea? I mean, who’s going to win a nomination on the democratic side? Do you have any ideas?

Julie (00:24:19):
I don’t, I don’t know. I mean, I know, I know that I, I know that Joe Biden is probably the most likely contender. Um,

Josh (00:24:29):
why does, why don’t the Democrats just get behind Bernie? Like Bernie could beat Trump if they had, if they had full, if you had full democratic support behind him, I bet you Bernie could. He’s crazy enough.

Julie (00:24:41):
Yeah. The, I think that’s why there’s no full support behind him.

Josh (00:24:46):
Okay. So you as a, you, as a, you as a Republican, that is not going to vote for Trump. And I think that a lot of Republicans or Americans are in this situation of like, huh, I hate Trump. Huh? I hate the left. Ugh. It’s all bad. Like what’s the, so what do you do in 2020 when you election time comes up, cause you’re, I know you’re not voting for Trump and you know, uh, maybe you get a halfway decent candidate in it. Let’s assume, let’s assume now it’s Biden. Okay. Like Biden’s your alternate contender. Do you not vote? Do you vote for someone else at third party? Do you, I mean not vote for Trump, but like what, what is all our tr, what do you do right now to say I still think voting is important cause I know you do, you still think being involved politically is important. I know you do and we would agree on that. And by the way, if you hate Trump, I still support and hope you go out and vote. Like I think everybody’s voice needs to be heard. But what do you, do you personally or people that are in that position, what would you recommend that they do? Or maybe just you,

Julie (00:26:05):
ah, I mean I’m not going to vote for Trump on principle alone on like, I think for me it’s almost like a spiritual principle for me. I’m just like, I am not throwing the little voice that I have behind a man that I think is doing so much damage. So I’m going to go with the lesser of two evils. Whether that means going for someone like Biden or going for a third party, get in just writing fricking Mickey mouse in the ballot box because I can’t handle what’s on there as my sort of, you know, cry for rebellion against what’s happening. I will probably do one of those two things. I will either vote for whoever the democratic nominee is, if I can stomach it or I will write in a vote.

Julie (00:26:49):
Just like my personal like battle cry.

Josh (00:26:53):
Do you know how many signatures you need to get on the ballot?

Julie (00:26:56):
I know, I’ve thought of it. I don’t know how many.

Josh (00:26:59):
I’ll put my name down and here, here’s the camera you asked for. All right guys. Ready? Are you ready for this statement? I made this up, funnel hacking live and I told her I would make an idea. It was my birthday. So we rent, we rang in, uh, we rang in my birthday. I was sitting next to Julia, we were talking about Trump and politics. If that’s not as Josh 40 as it comes, I don’t know. It is. Um, but, uh, I said, guys, I’m not a complete Trump fan boy. I said, Julia, if your name was on the ballot, if I had the option to vote for you over Donald Trump, I would vote for Julie’s stomion before I would vote for Donald Trump. So, I mean, that’s how much respect I have for Julie. Um, but okay. So do you think Trump’s gonna win the next election?

Julie (00:27:38):

Josh (00:27:38):
Okay. So let’s assume as Dubai as, I don’t think, Oh God, I just don’t, I don’t see a reality with it doesn’t happen, but, but maybe not. But let’s assume that he is going to, uh, let’s assume that he’s going to do that. Let’s, let’s switch the conversation here a little bit. Okay, sure. We’ve got four more years. Well, five more years now of Trump. Okay. For four years, 11 months, uh, of Trump ahead of us. Um, we have probably, arguably, if for no other reason, besides Trump’s pride alone, we have a good economy. For the next four ish years. Okay. Maybe not. But like let’s assume here, let’s, let’s see what coronavirus did you, okay, so random side note on that.

Josh (00:28:17):
Did you know that, uh, they’re bringing all the Corona virus coronavirus patients in America to Omaha because of, uh, the medicine here that, uh, university of Nebraska medicine. So here I am in Omaha thinking, Oh yeah, I’m away from everything else and I find out I’m on there flying them all in here. Oh, no. Anyway, okay. So we’ve got four, four and a half, four years of Trump, which to me as an entrepreneur, as a business person, guys, I want to be very clear when Trump gets elected for four more years, guess who’s going to be posted a picture of American flag that says four more years. Okay. Like, I want to be very clear. I am not against this. However, I see this radical divide, which is where I think here’s where you and I find common ground, right? And here’s where I really want to focus the rest of this on because I want to, I want to learn.

Josh (00:29:04):
All right. I see this radical radical divide that’s going on in America, but I, I almost seem like, like I’m a, I’m a person that’s like, man, see the other side man, like let’s work together people. Okay. But like when I go out there and I watched some of the videos on both sides, okay. Not, I’m not just saying one or the other, but typically it’s a little bit more crazy from the left. All right. Typically, um, of absolute like there is no, there is no room for budging. Okay. Like it is just insane. I watched a video from a black guy who in this particular instance I think that he did a very good job. I don’t agree with some of his videos cause he gets crazy, but he recorded the whole thing and he was talking to this, I’m not sure if she was gay or if she was a trans person or if she just supported it, but bald headed, very emotional woman.

Josh (00:29:59):
And this lady was screaming at him. He was going to make America great again hat. And he said, she said, that hat is in inciting fear for so many people. And he goes, well that’s your narrative. Like I’m trying to change that narrative. And she’s like, you can’t, we cannot look at facts. We cannot look at logic. We have to look at emotion because emotion is the only thing that matters. And he’s like, well, you know, that’s what the mainstream media is trying to tell you. And she’s like, well, what other media do you suggest I listened to? Because if it’s mainstream, uh, media, I don’t listen to them. I’m living in the dark. Okay. Now I don’t want to draw generalizations around that. But what I’m saying is, and very clearly this happens on both sides. I understand in a world where that is happening, I feel like it basically is an all out war right now.

Josh (00:30:46):
Right now it’s not with guns, but it is with words is with ideas. And we, we have a really hard time hearing the other side. And me and my bias state as a white male living in Omaha, Nebraska tends to see more of the crazy left than I do of the crazy right. But I’m sitting here like I feel like we, we got to piss some people off a little bit. You know what I mean? Like they’re there, you’re going to piss people off, you’re going to make people upset, you’ve got to take a stand. And I feel like a lot of Republicans or people on the right, people that align with the values that I have are like, listen, if I compromise with a psycho or a crazy on, on the other side of the aisle that fundamentally thinks that teaching these things are okay.

Josh (00:31:33):
Like I just can’t do that. And so I feel like there’s this fear of like unless we masculine, like unless we take over and win that we’re going to given to something that is totally against what we believe or what we think is okay and right. So my question to you is, how do we as a collective society move forward and what can we do to start to bridge this gap under Trump for the next four and a half years or almost five years to say, listen, we need to move forward and we need to come together when there’s disagreements. How do we do that?

Julie (00:32:07):
Yeah, it will. It’s hard to do when the leader at the top rules with the culture of fear. So, uh, everything trickles down from that. So I think if I, if I were to, there’s two ways to look at the world, right? The first way is to look at the world where you have your property, you have your fence and you are protecting. It’s a very protective stance. It’s a defensive stance. It’s a stance of, you know, um, the bad stuff is out there. It might infect me in here. Keep, keep the walls up. There’s that stance and then the other stance is a different one. It’s, well, I have so much power and I have so much goodness and light and all that kind of stuff that I can go into the darkest, deepest, most dangerous corner of the earth. And just by my very essence, infect in the positive good.

Julie (00:33:04):
And so unfortunately, I think what Donald Trump has done spiritually, psychologically is he operates from that very defensive posture, protect we’re gonna, you know what I mean? Like all, all hell’s gonna break loose, all that kind of stuff. And so he creates that. Now I’m not saying that having a protective mindset is bad, but I’m saying that when we engage in dialogue, if you are coming at it from a defensive stance, a stance that says, I must defend myself against, let’s just say you know, your viewpoint, otherwise you might infect me with some radical ideology that like is gonna mess me up or I can come at it from, I have so much light and goodness that I have enough space to hold intention. The fact that I can really, really like you as a person and really, really disagree with you at the same time.

Julie (00:33:57):
And that ability to hold those two things, intention to not fear infection, but to think about the fact that you can hold space is unfortunately, um, a principle of what we call dialectical behavioral therapy in the brain where your ability to hold two things, intention and not devolve into extremes is a learned trait that Donald Trump is not playing to that highest calling. He is playing to the extreme, uh, because that’s how he won. And so even in Christianity, I mean I knew you’re a Christian. We believe all kinds of things theologically that are, that we hold intention. God has given us free will, God has predestination, God is one, God is three, right? Like we hold these things and we, and we learn how to hold things that don’t make any sense intention. And if you can’t do that as a person, then you are unable to love people, hear them out, hold space for them and disagree with them at the same time. And I don’t think Donald Trump has done anything to promote that kind of culture.

Josh (00:35:00):
I would agree that Donald Trump has not done anything to promote that type of culture. Um, at a local level. [inaudible] are we [inaudible] actually let me rephrase the question. Are we too focused on Washington and on the power that they have over us? Only because we give them attention. Like would it be a good idea if we just stopped paying attention to Trump and the powers that be and we focused on the local level, local government, local issues there or cause like I think, I think the big, the big question that a lot of people have a lot of times it’s like what can I do? I’m one person, right? And so then naturally we look to Washington and we go, well, it’s all screwed up or whatever, so I’m just going to turn it off. And then the people that are like involved like you and I are like, no, you got to know what’s going on. Like, ah, they can’t, why can’t you see you know this?

Josh (00:36:06):
But then they get in there and they’re like, well, there’s nothing I can do. So for the average person right now, if I were to go out there and say, guys, here’s the game plan that says you can get involved without going crazy. What does that look like? Is that, do, do people pay attention at a, a, a federal level? Do they pay attention on a local level? Do they get involved at a local level or do they stay out of politics, say entirely and just go be involved in a church? Like what would your solution be as a actual step to move forward in this and start to cultivate this type of behavior? Because I firmly believe that the, I don’t believe, like, I believe that Donald Trump changes the culture and controls the culture from where he’s at. But I believe that that only happens if we oper if we choose to operate with what he’s, what he’s doing. So if we can go and change that at a local level, I feel like we could fundamentally grassroots movement over the course of time. Change that. So what, and maybe you disagree with that, but like what could someone do in their everyday life?

Julie (00:37:06):
Well, I think, I think that people can’t put their head in the sand. I think the tendency is to do that because you, you’re afraid of losing hope. Right. And I think if you can, if you can, if you can try to hold onto hope, even while paying attention, that’s, that’s the best option in my opinion. I think we should pay attention if we all stop paying attention to Washington, like, like it’s just gonna be corruption at the highest level. Like it never, I just don’t know how to undo it. I think that getting involved with the local level is where the action is. I think that’s where you can take action on the things that matter to you. And, and honestly with social media, this is where the game has changed because the people with the most money are the people who get the most visibility because they can run, you know, it’s like, like Bloomberg was like, Oh, I’ll just throw $150 million in ads and get in front of everybody.

Julie (00:38:04):
And I don’t know if you watched, I forget which documentary it was about the Cambridge Analytica. Yeah, you watch that one. You see the people with the most money have a, a way to influence the masses. Never before seen in our talking. I mean even if you just look at Donald Trump’s Twitter account, that to me is the scary part because we almost don’t live in a, in a local society anymore. We live in a global one and you know, you, you can see how, how, how easily people are swayed. And so I think the greatest thing we can do is just to stay awake, just to stay awake and constantly be budding up against people who, whether they agree or disagree so that we don’t get like brainwashed into either extreme. Um, and I know that, that that sounds kind of vague and doesn’t sound very brass tacks. And of course I think helping at the local level or helping in your local church and you know, attaching yourself to the, to the issues that matter to you, whether that’s abortion or whether it’s equal rights or whatever it happens to be. Yes, attach yourself to that. But I think staying awake is a job in and of itself given the push of, of social media to infect or affect the entire planet in just like one giant campaign. Like it’s unbelievable to me. It’s so scary to me. I feel like we are more ripe for

Julie (00:39:34):
dictatorship and the kinds of things that we’ve seen, um, back in world war II with Hitler than ever before because of that power and watching how much delusion Trump has done on people and just the his, he’s just, he’s brilliant. Like he’s brilliant manipulator.

Josh (00:39:55):

Julie (00:39:55):
Terrifies me because he’s got so much power just from social media, not even talking about the presidential power deal.

Josh (00:40:02):
Yes. Do you think that though another candidate would not now that this president, the president president says thank you, thank you. Has been set. Yeah. I mean I look at Hillary Clinton and, and, and I’m not trying to be like, Oh, Hillary is great or bad or terrible or whatever, but I go, is Donald Trump just doing publicly what another candidate would do non publicly? And so therefore causing much more of a stir and fuss about it is then like it, would somebody else just do the same thing or has Donald Trump, do you believe like that much worse? I mean like, okay, a peat or a yang or someone like that? I don’t think so, but I mean like a Bernie, uh, certainly a Hillary. I mean, like, couldn’t one argue that they’re going to do the exact same thing? And I have a point that I’m going here with this, but I’m curious your thoughts.

Julie (00:41:04):
Oh, they might. Um, I think, I think I have no illusions of grandeur that like, these people are honest of working hard care. Like I, I know that there’s corruption all the way, all the way, you know, down down the ranks. I think that Donald Trump people have called him, um, you know, uh, a genius in his marketing. He’s a narcissist. Like if you’ve ever been in a relationship with a narcissist, you know that they can take the smartest, most capable people and turn them into like die hard followers with enough gaslighting in projection. And so I think that what he has done publicly, which maybe would have been done in secret, I’m not saying it’s better or worse, has done so much more damage culturally on our country that I just, I, I just don’t even know like how the, how we’re going to like clean up the mess that he’s made because he has taken very smart, capable people and like turn them all upside down. It’s just, it’s, I have a history of engaging with a narcissist on a, on a, on a relational level. Um, and I know people throw that word around a lot and people use that word and it’s not really a diagnosis, they’re just using it as a way to say that person is selfish. But I have dealt with eight like DSM five a level narcissists and they will, they will rip the most intelligent, brilliant minds to shreds with enough time, money and energy. And I think that’s what Donald Trump is in position to do.

Josh (00:42:46):
Okay. There are two things that I want to get you here, but I can only take one at a time. So guys, I’m going to ask Julia here in a second where she gets news and information from and some of the ways that we can actually like break down what might be true in a world of fake news, whatever that means, right? But like in a world of, I mean, where you have two TVs on the same thing and one of them has one headline on the other. But before I do that, I think where we’re talking about right now kind of segues really well into the conversation that we were having a funnel hacking live, which, and we touched on it briefly at the beginning here, which is man in a blunt saying like, letting the world burn can’t be worse than socialism, right?

Josh (00:43:24):
So, so, so, and I want, I’m curious about this though, right? I, um, I came into adulthood under Barack Obama, right? I mean, my first election that I could ever vote in was Mitt Romney versus Obama. And, um, you know, I think Obama’s last four years, the, the, the economy started to have an upward rise, right? Things got a little bit better and then all of a sudden Trump came in and we are living in arguably one of the greatest, if not the greatest economic boom. And certainly in my lifetime, in the past a hundred years probably, I mean like things are very, very, very, very, very, very good right now. And so

Julie (00:44:04):
I would argue, I would just say that that’s like me looking at my six year old and being like, I am an amazing parent. Look at how good my kid is doing in first grade. And I have not even yet sent that kid out to stand the test of time. Like it’d be incredibly arrogant. So I’m just going to put that out there

Josh (00:44:24):
and I appreciate that. So I look at things and I go, I don’t know what’s on right? Like I’m 20s I just turned 26 but dang, this is awesome, right? Like making money is easy and social media is awesome and you know, things of this are awesome. And I didn’t like history in school, but my mom forced it upon me and I’m thankful that she did it, at least in the certain extent. And, and I’ve looked at it, I’ve looked at socialist countries and communism and I looked at all these different things and I go, those things are terrible. Like those take away my fundamental ability to choose and to do. And I mean I, and I looked at it and I thought about this this morning as I was walking in and getting my coffee this morning and my flip flops and sweatpants and everybody else is in their work boots and winter coats.

Josh (00:45:09):
And I’m like, I am so privileged and blessed is amazing, right? Like I can do whatever I want whenever I want. But this is this idea of like capitalism, a free society. You get to make that decision, you get to control your own destiny, right? And so me, I say, you know what? I don’t fundamentally believe there is a system in the world based on human nature upon which I’ve studied, maybe not as much as you, but for a 26 year old, far, far, far more than the average 26 year old that says that we can actually live in a society where everything is fair. So I would rather have a society where, okay, everything might not be fair for everybody, but anyone, maybe not everyone, but anyone can choose to create their own destiny. As a general rule, yes there are exceptions. Yes, there are.

Julie (00:45:51):
You know, the 2080 20 rule, I get it. But as a general rule, I believe capitalism to be the best society out there. So on the flip side of that, I say if my alternate option is socialism, communism or whatnot, I know that, I know that, I know that that those do not work. I don’t know what is going to happen when America inevitably collapses, which I believe is going to happen in my lifetime. And when I say collapse, I don’t know if that’s great depression. I don’t know what that’s worth. I don’t know if that’s a world collapse and that may be terrible, but I’m like in my head right now, and this is why I’m asking you because I don’t know if this is right or not. This is just where I’m at in my head. In my world, I go, you know what?

Josh (00:46:34):
Socialism and capitalism, socialism and communism are so, so terrible and I don’t know what it looks like when the whole entire world collapsed and everybody’s rebuilding from scratch and things are terrible. But I’m like, at least we can have this to go off of. And maybe we can come up with an Erica 2.0 I’m willing to roll those dice and say if that’s where we’re headed, that’s where we’re heading. But let’s keep capitalism alive for as long as possible. And therefore I believe that Donald Trump has that option. But you on the other hand, obviously disagree with that, but I’m curious to understand your thought process.

Julie (00:47:02):
Well, I think I would challenge your thinking that the only options are Trump or socialism. I think that’s an extremist think thought that I disagree with,

Josh (00:47:11):
but I’m saying from a political perspective, is that not the only options we have? I mean, Bernie’s self-proclaimed social,

Julie (00:47:17):
well, I didn’t, I wasn’t going to install a socialist economy in country in four years.

Josh (00:47:22):
Fair enough. Fair enough.

Julie (00:47:23):
Okay. So I listened. My husband, uh, from Romania, grew up in communism for 10 years. Like he, like, I know that communism and socialism strip people of their freedom, and I am, I, I’m like, I’m all in with you. Like I love America. I love capitalism. I love, I love entrepreneurship. I love all of it. And I would, I would fight to the death for my freedom. So I get you on that. I just don’t think that our only options are Trump or socialism, that, that I don’t, I don’t see it that way. And I, I think that, you know, even if I, even if I can’t stand Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren or whoever, they’re not like, thank God, thank God our constitution, although it’s at risk, is strong enough to handle a complete buffoon idiot of a president or a master manipulator as a president or a left wing, crazy nut as a president because it’s democracy.

Julie (00:48:26):
And so there’s enough balance of power to be able to sustain that. Now obviously if we had 20, 30, 40 years of, of, you know, people with no term limits, all kinds of stuff, yeah, we’d be, we’d be in great danger. But I think that if the world collapses social and socialism is gonna be the least of our problems because we’re just going to have an all out dictatorship, like, you know what I mean? Like democracy doesn’t grow in crisis. Democracy grows when even when you think about even just the dark ages history, right? The dark ages happened cause a terrible time. And then when the enlightenment came, that’s when all of these, these thoughts and new ideas and Socrates and Plato and all that kind of stuff kind of came out. You’re not going to get that kind of development in a country when the, when the world has collapsed, you’re going to get Hitler’s and you’re going to get dictators and you’re going to get people who are scared to death. So that’s why I would argue that the collapse of the world is not going to preserve our freedom. It’s going to do the opposite. And so that’s sort of where I come.

Josh (00:49:30):
So, so I want to clarify, I don’t necessarily think that the collapse of the world in an extreme scenario here, right? Um, is going to preserve our freedoms. I would argue that, and it could be wrong on this entirely. Once again, I’m very open to point me to history, right? Or point me to, to a belief system that’s otherwise, but I feel like it will, as you said earlier, we live in because of social media. We live in like this global world, right? I almost feel like if the world were to collapse a little bit and everyone will go through, everyone’s going to go find their tribe and it’s going to be, it’s going to push back, right? It’s going to put us back to this local level. And I feel like that’s what ultimately needs to happen. And like, don’t get me wrong, I love the world convenience as it is today.

Josh (00:50:18):
I mean, especially for the position I am in life, it is phenomenal, right? But like for me, I look forward and I go, I know how it gets better than where we have right now economically, right? Like it is amazing right now. And I go, if, if our next step is okay, socialism, which we know doesn’t work, versus you know what, let it collapse for a bit. Let let people go back and be forced to take personal responsibility. Let it be to where the government literally can’t help people to, where people are, have to go back to a church or have to go back to a local thing or there has to be, and I understand that there’s, there’s flaws in the thinking people would die. I understand that and that’s a terrible, terrible thing. But I’m like, at least then we go as a society and we go back to like half thing to get along to survive. Right? But right now it is so easy and so good in America that I’m like, Hey, if we have to go back to that for a little bit and maybe that’s for 10 or 20 years, but we can then rebuild something that’s so much better collectively and that’s going to last longer than two or 300 years and we, we reshape the world as we know it, then maybe that’s not such a terrible idea. What, where’s the law? The flaws in that logic.

Julie (00:51:33):
Um, cause I’m sure there are. I just, yeah, I just, it’s hard for me, it’s such a doomsday, it’s such a, such a doomsday outlook that like if Donald Trump doesn’t become president, the world is going to collapse. No, no, no. I don’t think, I think the world is going to collapse period no matter who walks off.

Josh (00:51:55):
Right. It’s, it could be Trump, it could be Warren, it can be Biden, it could be like I look at the system right now and I worked in the healthcare system for a little bit or selling life health.

Julie (00:52:02):
How, I guess my question is how has Trump’s infection on America made us better able to handle a collapse? Like I think it’s done the opposite. I think it’s created such a divide that like we’re closer to the brink of war. Like even just like be mind wise than ever before because

Josh (00:52:24):
okay. So like if I knew a collapse was coming, right. If, if I, if I, if I truly believed that, and I think it’s probably a little bit further off than I’m making it, maybe making it to sound out or else if I thought it was actually super near, I would probably prepare a little bit better. But like I’m kind of a doomsday prepper, right? Like I’m the dude that literally has four months worth of cans socked away in a storage locker. So I’m like, I literally have that right. I have hundreds and hundreds of rounds of ammunition and guns. Like, like I am that dude, right? So like, and my, my people think I’m crazy, but like I who kind of operate this way, my thing is, is like if that’s gonna happen inevitably, then let’s, let’s keep things as free in a capitalistic society for as long as possible.

Josh (00:53:08):
Let’s, let’s bring economic boom here so that we can prepare so that we can go and we can learn and we can have the freedoms. And you know what? I want to be able to choose my rights and my freedoms and whatever for as long as possible cause it’s common. So let’s put it off for as long as possible, long as possible, long as possible. And it’s going come. But at least we can now be a little bit more prepared. At least we can maybe put some things in place because I believe in the free market, right? Maybe we can put, you know, Amazons or the Facebooks of the world or the Googles of the world, which I don’t have time to go on that discussion, but like maybe because they’re a little bit more solidified now, maybe that they’re going to help prevent some of that and maybe they will help with the ma prevent mass hunger, right. Or mass things, which once again, people are like, they have too much power. I’m like, as long as you, as long as the power stays in the public and out of the government, I don’t care who has it because I always believe that it will be over. Like it will turn. Right.

Julie (00:53:59):
Oh, funny to me, how many entrepreneurs go crazy when Zuckerberg censors them. And I’m like, dude, it’s capitalism.

Josh (00:54:07):
And that’s why like people are like trash aren’t. Exactly. And I’m like, that’s why people are like, Josh, aren’t you mad that that Facebook deletes you or like limits your post rates or whatever? I’m like, no, because I buy using the Facebook platform itself, I choose to operate within those bounds. So like do whatever you want. It’s a free market. Okay. But that being said, I’m like, I think that maybe they could play a huge role into this. So that’s why I’m like, Hey, America is going to collapse. I actually believe that in some format or another because I don’t believe, I mean what’s trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars. Like we’re just printing money, we’re just handing stuff out. I mean, like we’re so jacked up. Something has got to break.

Julie (00:54:47):
And I mean, we haven’t talked about how much, uh, how much Donald Trump has raised the debt. Massive amounts.

Josh (00:54:54):
Right? And yeah, and I agree. But once again, I’m coming from this scenario of like,

Julie (00:55:01):
yeah, so I see, I see why you’re saying it because you’re, because you’re, you’re operating on the, on the, on the supposition that like the only way to fix America is for it to first collapse in some form in order to be some format. So I see then of course with that thinking then yes it would make sense. Then she would be like, it, you’d be like, hold, hold it off as long as like give me just four more years to prepare. Like, like I’m just like get more nutrition for God’s worth food cause I pulled it off. So that makes sense. I don’t operate under that ideology, so I don’t

Josh (00:55:36):
ideology do you operate under like where do you see the next, and I know it’s all speculation, right? But like hypothetically, over the next 10 years of my life when I turned 35 36 years old, like, is there going to be a reset? Do you think that we could avoid an actual collapse by doing things differently than we’re Donald Trump’s doing? Like where are you operating out of?

Julie (00:56:00):
Yeah. Well, I mean I think, I think it would depend on if we’re talking from a, from the perspective of like what we’re doing to our, our planet and all of that kind of stuff. I do feel, um, like, I dunno, I dunno. I feel like the next hundred years are pretty dicey from whether we talking about viruses, we’re talking about climate or we’re talking about, you know, all, all of that stuff. It doesn’t look great for us in the next hundred years. Um, I do operate with a world view that the only way that this earth is going to actually be fully restored is through, through God. So I, I know that. And um, and so in the meantime, I always am looking for that which calls people to their highest selves. And so I think for me, I, I see what you’re saying and I see where you’re coming from.

Julie (00:56:57):
And I understand that. I, I think I like to hope more that there is the, that it’s not all or nothing, that there are ways to just keep doing the next right thing, just keep you in the next room, whatever that next right thing is, let’s just commit to it. Um, it’s not very radical, but it’s, it’s where I believe. And so I don’t necessarily think that there’s a doomsday in the next 10, 20 years in terms of collapse. I think the world’s gonna end pretty poorly. I don’t know when I probably be dead by then, but in the meantime, the legacy that I can leave is one that says that like you hope against all hope and you call humanity to its highest good as as much as you possibly can.

Josh (00:57:38):
So, and I like that. I like the calling people to their highest self. Let’s get practical on that for a second here. Quick. Um, social media, a lot of people listening right now have some audience, even if that’s only a couple of hundred people, right? A Facebook group and email list or in business. Therefore, if you’re in business, you have a customer base of some sort, right? So like [inaudible] talk to me specifically. If, if I’m the best example here, um, how does one stand up for what they believe in and still call people to their highest self that fundamentally disagree with them? Case in point, if a, let’s not use political figures here, so I’m not, maybe not specific to Trump, but, uh, let’s say on the topic of, um, I don’t know, uh, food stamps and, and, and you know how health in that space, I don’t want to go to the abortion issue because that’s too much right now.

Josh (00:58:31):
But like in that sense, right? Like someone like me, I’m like, Ooh, I get it. Some people need it. I mean, my mom grew up on them, right? I mean, at one point, I mean, my mom grew up in a terrible, terrible household with an abusive alcoholic father and divorced. And you know, like, I mean, like very, very, very, very, very bad scenario, right? So like I get it, there are certain instances and certain people for a very small period of time, but for someone like me, I’m like, okay, like you can try, you can turn your life around, you can’t stay there, you can’t do that. How do I go and support whatever it is and use that example or use whatever one you want to come up with that’s a better fit and stay true to that and put that out there while still calling someone to their highest self and, and encouraging people to become all that they can be that would disagree with it and be like, the government should go out there and provide everything and we should look to the government for it. You know what I mean? Like some of that has a fundamentally different world view. How do I do that?

Julie (00:59:29):
I don’t, I mean, I think like in the example of like food stamps or things like that, taking personal responsibility, I think all you can do is build a legacy and build a business and build a platform that encourages people to recognize their potential. Um, and, and I think that’s what you do because you, you, you know, if someone is gonna like leverage food stamps when they’re being lazy and all that kind of stuff, there’s really not much you can do. Like, I mean, personal responsibility says they, they’ve chosen what they’ve chosen. But you can, you can Harold leverage, elevate, expand the things that will hopefully call some of those people who might otherwise have needed food stamps or, or, or gone into poverty, giving them an opportunity to come and choose a different path. And I think that’s all you can do.

Josh (01:00:21):
Okay. All right. I would tend to agree with that. Is there any, um, no, I’m, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll say that question for another time. Okay. For part three, I, which will inevitably come maybe in season three, um, I want to, one of the things that I, um, and I’m very much pro is, uh, looking at the other side and saying, okay, I might disagree with you, but here is a couple of things that I am thankful that you’ve done, right? Or, or like, Hey, Bravo to you and what not. And if you want to ask this exact same question to me, feel free to, um, what, what can you look at from the good of what Trump has done? What is something that Trump has done that you would be like, you know what, this here I can get behind.

Julie (01:01:11):
Yeah. I think he’s made some really strong economic decisions, um, in terms of trying to bolster jobs and, you know, bring, you know, good trade deals and things like that. Um, so I, I appreciate, I appreciate what he’s done in that regard. I also appreciate that he’s made people made politics trendy again. Um, you know, for better, for worse. I appreciate that now more people care, even though it seems more violent than it was. Um, I, I do think we will have a unprecedented turnout this election more than ever before. And so I can appreciate, um, the way he’s agitated, uh, our country to that. Um, so I appreciate that. I, um, you know, I would have to think hard to think of the other things that I appreciate about him. I’m sure I could find a couple more. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh (01:02:13):
No, no, that’s good. That’s good. If you, if you, uh, I, I do want to circle back to the last question here in just a second about how you find your new source. Cause I think that’s super important. I don’t wanna forget that, but just a fun question here for you. If you got to sit down one on one with Mr. Donald Trump himself and, uh, you got to, I don’t know, you got to have dinner with him or whatnot and you, you got to ask him a question and uh, it was just him and you, right? Like there no media around, there’s no press around where you get to sit down and ask him and it’s completely off the record. Um, what, what question would you ask him?

Julie (01:02:50):
I have a fundamental belief that if you are dealing with a true narcissist, you really can’t really get to know who that person is, um, on any meaningful level. So that’s an interesting question because I would, I would want to know what’s underneath all of the broad bravado, but I don’t know that I could get to it because I don’t think he knows because I think the, I think he has very, very classic narcissism. So I might probably just ask him a question about deal structure because I think that’s something that obviously he’s been good at. Um, I would probably take what he told me and add some ethics to it, you know what I mean? That’s probably what I would ask him cause I think he probably has a lot of knowledge on that.

Josh (01:03:43):
Hmm. Okay. That’s fair enough. Um, and as someone that, as you said, you have a lot of experience with, um, narcissists. Um, I, I do not have anywhere near as much experience of that. I mean, Donald Trump’s, I have some I guess. Right. But, uh, as you say, so I, I definitely respect where you’re coming from there for those people that are out there that are like, all right, Julie. Huh? All right, Josh, I follow you guys for entrepreneurship and you drag me into politics here. Oh, I can’t stand you guys, but Hey, I guess I do need to get involved. Um, I think a common question I know for me and for many, many people is I don’t know what’s true, right? Like I don’t know where to even look to know whether or not what I’m getting on the news is actual factual. Where would you point people to as a good starting place or how would you encourage people to get started to say, okay, like, Hey, I crosscheck with these four websites or I always do this. Is there somewhere where you can push someone to say, here’s where I would at least go either specific or nonspecifically as general rules that would help them in that direction?

Julie (01:04:43):
Yeah. Well, I will say that the, um, an atmosphere confusion is usually a sign that a manipulator is at work. Um, and in this case it’s probably multiple manipulators. It’s big money in media, big money in government, big money in, in, in business. So the very fact that we’re confused, just that alone, if you took it, nothing else should send a glaring, glaring, very loud warning sign that you are being manipulated. So that’s the first thing, like wake the F up. You are being manipulated if you are confusion, because confusion is just like a classic sign. Um, do with that, with, with what you will. But I know for me, in dealing with, um, a psychologically abusive relationship, the very first symptom, and I’m a smart, like I was the number one student in my class in psychology just to give it for anybody who’s watching, like the top student in clinical psychology graduated.

Julie (01:05:44):
So not only am I a smart person, but I also was in psychology, which is the study of human behavior. And I got myself into a very, very psychologically destructive relationship with a biological parent that I’ve never met, that I had been adopted. And the very first symptom of the abuse was confusion. And I was confused as to which way was up in which way was down. And so I know now where I feel confusion wake up. Secondly, as far as, uh, sources, I really do like Twitter. I like Twitter because I follow authors and people who’ve written books and I follow all, all the different, you know, there’s, there’s lots of different, different authors and I follow them because I know they’ve done a tremendous amount of research on a very narrow topic. So whether it’s anti-Trump or pro Trump, they will have studied at a, at a pretty deep level, more than the news will ever be able to study.

Julie (01:06:42):
And so I follow a lot of Twitter accounts. Um, of course when I do look at the news, I’ve made a commitment to myself. If I’m going to read an article on a site like ABC news, um, I’m also going to read the same similar article over on Fox news because I want to hear, I want to see the frame on either side. Both of those are extremely prejudice, like biased in their, in their, you know, in their corners. Um, and then when I get confused, I just go right to the source and I read the actual evidence. So I went in the impeachment and all of that stuff. I didn’t even, I like drowned out everything else and I paid attention to the actual transcripts, the actual emails, the actual texts, not just the cliff notes, not the rundowns of the actual words that were said to try to make a judgment for myself.

Josh (01:07:32):
I think that’s super, super important. Going to source. Um, I can’t do Twitter. It’s too much for me, but I understand where that comes from. I thought I was going to little old Josh thought he was going to change the world by opening up a Twitter account and become famous and I was like two days into it. Nope. Um, but, but, uh, no, I, I really do believe that at that, uh, going to the source is important and I like, you know, what you said about going to other sides of the spectrum. Um, do I want to be respectful of your time? Do you have time for one more question here? That’s all.

Julie (01:08:02):
Yeah, I do have a call at one 30. Right.

Josh (01:08:04):
Okay. Okay. So we have a little bit, a little time. Okay. Real quick. Um, kind of shifting gears just a little bit here for, for someone that’s out there that’s listening. Uh, cause we do get a lot of people that maybe aren’t business, uh, that listen to the show but are, you know, very interested in, in making a better life for themselves. They want to become successful or whatnot. Um, you know, we are living in a great economic boom right now. There’s no question about that. I mean it is absolutely phenomenal. And, uh, that being said though, equally there are a lot of people out there that are very, very much hurting financially that, um, are still just desperately trying to figure it out and, and are, I mean they’re down to the last dollar healthcare’s taken 20%, 30% of what they own or earn.

Josh (01:08:41):
It’s ridiculous. It’s absolutely insane, right? Um, some generic, really good framework advice of where to get started. If somebody was to say, I want to get into this entrepreneurship game or I want to learn how to like better my financial future specifically financially here, right? Um, whether that be through investing or making more money or starting a side hustle or maybe going all out into business where, where does some good rules of thumb or some good resources that someone could go check out to say I just want to get started. I don’t need to be a multimillionaire but I do need to understand how to better my life. Where would you point them to? And feel free to plug your own stuff if you have resources that would do this. This is an open question for those people that are looking to get started.

Julie (01:09:21):
Yeah, I mean I think a lot of people get their, get their handle in the freelance economy to start. I think if you need money obviously um, you know, saving, cutting expenses, all of those things are important. I think that, you know, the debt conversation needs to be re re redone cause I think there’s bad debt and I think there’s good debt and leverage what, you know, what entrepreneurs call it leverage. But I think the bad debt consumer debt is, is a huge problem. And I think once you realize that leverage is actually your friend and where you can, you know, accumulate well, you can start to see, you can start to see the difference and you can watch the people who have money, how they leverage good debt. So, um, I don’t know that the, the Dave Ramseys of the world who’ve done us all that much amazingness, um, because of that, cause they’ve, they’ve sort of demonized all that.

Julie (01:10:14):
So I would say, if I were you, cut expenses, figure out what you can live on minimally, invest… take on some good debt. Good debt is debt that’s going to invest, that you’re going to invest in yourself to become the highest version of yourself that you can be. I think the freelance economy is a great place to start, because it’s easier to sell services than it is to sell products, generally speaking. If you’re like, “There’s no way I’ll sell services and you want to jump right into products”, I would pick one mentor and stick with them. There’s so many ways to do this. There’s 8,000 ways to do it. The one way not to do it, is to bounce around from mentor to mentor, cause you’re just going to get confused. Pick a mentor, go all in with them, do what they say, do your due diligence, leverage some good debt, start making money, and then as soon as you… but if you don’t tackle the behaviors that have got you into the consumer debt, more money is just going to amplify what you already are. So make sure you’re doing the work, the hard work, to understand that you need to have a re-frame of how to leverage money, and use money, rather than to consume goods. And to go from… and I love it the way Ryan Lee from Cashflow Tactics…

Josh (01:11:28):
Yeah. They’re awesome.

Julie (01:11:28):
He says, “Go from being a consumer to a producer.” And that one shift, and that word, will change your relationship with money forever.

Josh (01:11:36):
Hmm. I like that a lot. Are there any like, good books or resources that someone could go on right now that you’d recommend?

Julie (01:11:44):
Yeah, I mean there’s… Oh my gosh. There’s so many. I mean, I know in our world, in the marketing world DotCom Secrets is a great… That was my first book. It’s a lot of people’s first book.

Josh (01:11:55):
Yeah. It’s my first book.

Julie (01:11:55):
It’s not an first official business book, but it’s still somehow, I don’t know, it just… it, it, it opens your mind. I mean, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and a lot of people love that book. That’s sort of a higher level book. There’s a lot of great, great courses, programs, mentors out there who… Who teach you the freelance economy, which can kind of get you in the game, or you have someone like me. I… I have some freelance stuff, but I’ve been focusing on people who want to get into the course creation game, and they want to start launching a course. I’ve got resources on that. So, pick one thing though. Pick an idea and move with a mentor.

Josh (01:12:33):
Julie, thank you so much. Where can people find more about you really quick before I wrap this up?

Julie (01:12:38):
The Best place to find these at my website

Josh (01:12:45):
Perfect. Alright. We’ll link that down below in the description, and on the replays of everything. Julie, it is always a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming back on. Maybe there will be a season three or a round three, but for now, thank you so much.

Julie (01:12:57):
Hopefully the world doesn’t collapse.

Josh (01:12:57):
Hopefully the world doesn’t collapse, but if the world does collapse, the first thing I’m going to do is I’m going to figure out a way to get a phone working and go, “Julie. We need to go live.”

Julie (01:13:06):
And I’ll be like, “I need some guns, because I don’t have any.”

Josh (01:13:10):
Well, we’ll get you taken care of if that’d be the case. Julie, it’s always a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on. Guys, as always, hustle, hustle. God bless. Do not be afraid to think different because those of us that think different are going to be the ones that change the world. I love you all and I will see you on the next episode. Wednesday, in two days from now, Kathryn Jones, Funnel Hacking Live speaker will be joining us. 12 Eastern time, 11:00 AM Central as always. Guys, take it easy FAM. Peace.