Think Different Theory

Does Absolute Truth Exist? Is Good & Bad Relative? With Nik Robbins

WHAT IS THIS EPISODE ABOUT?

Origin, Meaning, Destiny, And Morality.

These are the core fundamental questions we must answer to understand the world we live in.

In this episode, I sit down with Nik Robbins, one of the most genuine, positive, people I have ever met in my life, and we discuss:

  • Absolute Truth (Does it exist and why?)
  • Where does good and evil come from? (And is it subjective?)
  • Where is our origin? And why?
  • God, and our relationship with him.
  • Why Josh believes Christianity is the one true religion.
  • Social conditioning and how it has shaped us.
  • And more!

WHY SHOULD I LISTEN?

If you are wanting to better your understanding of God, religion, the Christian world view, the counter-arguments, and apologetics in general, this is a MUST LISTEN.

WHERE CAN I LEARN MORE?

Be sure to follow me on the below platforms:

Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google, or Stitcher.

Instagram @joshforti

Facebook

YouTube

WHEN DID IT AIR?

February 26, 2020

EPISODE LINKS:

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @joshforti

You can find the transcripts and more at www.thinkdifferenttheory.com/182

You can find this episode plus all the previous episode here.

Be sure to grab a copy of The Mindshift Playbook here

If you haven’t already, please rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts!

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Disclaimer: The Transcript Is Auto-Generated And May Contain Spelling And Grammar Errors

Josh 0:00
Question for you. Have you ever wanted to learn more about God and religion and truth and morality and where it comes from and what people believe and the different religious views that are out there? Well, you have, then you’re in luck because in today’s episode, I sit down and interview Nik Robbins. And we go for over two hours and 20 minutes about that exact topic about the topics of God, truth, morality, religion, where they come from, and it’s an open and honest conversation about what I believe about what he believes the differences and how we actually go and get to those conclusions. I’m not trying to prove Nik wrong, he is not trying to prove me wrong. We’re sitting here having an open important conversation about these topics that actually matter. And I think you’re really going to enjoy it, especially if you’re into that type of stuff, or have questions about those types of things because I think it brings a lot of perspective. And we really do we push, and we asked really, really cool questions. So strap in, get ready for it’s gonna be absolutely amazing. I do need to let you know though. Nik is one of those amazing, like, upbeat happy-go-lucky guys I’ve ever met my life. He’s a very good friend of mine. But he does us strong language so if you’re offended by strong language or you have children, it would be a good idea to just be aware that once we kind of get going the episode strong language is used on this. So, strap in. It’s gonna be amazing episode, we have some great conversation. I can’t wait for you to listen to it.

Intro 1:16
You‌ ‌are‌ ‌now‌ ‌entering‌ ‌a‌ ‌new‌ ‌paradigm.‌ ‌So, ‌here’s‌ ‌my‌ ‌issue.‌ ‌I‌ ‌wanted‌ ‌to‌ ‌find‌ ‌the‌ ‌ answers‌ ‌to‌ ‌life’s‌ ‌biggest‌ ‌questions.‌ ‌Things‌ ‌like,‌ ‌how‌ ‌do‌ ‌I‌ ‌become‌ ‌happy‌ ‌and‌ ‌live‌ ‌with‌ ‌purpose?‌ ‌ How‌ ‌do‌ ‌I‌ ‌make‌ ‌more‌ ‌money‌ ‌doing‌ ‌what‌ ‌I‌ ‌love,‌ ‌and‌ ‌what‌ ‌does‌ ‌it‌ ‌mean‌ ‌to‌ ‌be‌ ‌truly‌ ‌successful‌ ‌in‌ ‌ all‌ ‌areas‌ ‌of‌ ‌life?‌ ‌My‌ ‌name‌ ‌is‌ ‌Josh‌ ‌Forti,‌ ‌@JoshForti‌ ‌on‌ Instagram,‌ ‌and‌ ‌I‌ ‌ask‌ ‌life’s‌ ‌biggest‌ ‌ questions‌ ‌and‌ ‌share‌ ‌the‌ ‌answers‌ ‌with‌ ‌you.‌ ‌My‌ ‌goal‌ ‌is‌ ‌to‌ ‌help‌ ‌you‌ ‌find‌ ‌purpose,‌ happiness,‌ ‌and‌ ‌ open‌ ‌your‌ ‌mind‌ ‌to‌ ‌new‌ realm of possibility ‌by‌ ‌helping‌ ‌you‌ ‌think‌ ‌differently‌ ‌about‌ ‌everything‌ ‌you‌ do,‌ ‌know,‌ ‌and‌ ‌understand.‌ ‌On‌ ‌this‌ ‌podcast,‌ ‌we‌ ‌think‌ ‌different,‌ ‌we‌ ‌dream‌ ‌bigger,‌ ‌and‌ ‌we‌ ‌live‌ ‌in‌ ‌a‌ ‌ world‌ ‌without‌ ‌limits.‌ ‌This‌ ‌is‌ ‌a‌ ‌new‌ ‌paradigm.‌ ‌Welcome‌ ‌to‌ ‌The‌ ‌Think‌ ‌Different‌ ‌Theory.

Nik 2:01
We’re live with Nik Robbins, the man the myth, the legend, himself, Mr. Nik Robbins. Welcome back to Think Different Theory. I’m looking forward to this one dude. Welcome back. I am man, I’m so excited. It’s its been too long man, the last conversation, we got another 5-10 hours. I’m really excited to jump back in where we left off and it’s gonna be a lot of fun.

Josh 2:20
It’s gonna be so much fun and it’s funny The last time we had this conversation, I was in Hawaii and in Maui, dude. And we were chatting back and forth. And I remember I think I had turned the air conditioning off because it was like a noisy air conditioner. And you know, so the audio came through better and like I think the last one went for two hours and 20 minutes or something like that. And I was dripping in sweat on that one. So super, super funny. But how you been man before we get into this how’s life,

Nik 2:50
Man I’ve been it’s been amazing have been a crazy start. Can’t believe it’s already March. I can’t believe that I’ve been just freaking incredible man. Got to see Tony Robbins this year funnel hacking live. You Yeah, mastermind event come up this weekend businesses good life is amazing, man. That’s awesome dude. Congratulations and you’re down there in Florida sunny and warm down there. I check it all Dude, it’s very warm right now we’re getting sunburned regular out here. It’s beautiful.

Josh 3:16
I don’t like you bro right now, man I’m in Omaha and we’re planning on moving we’re I said this whole time we were planning on moving down to Florida. Like that was the plan. Probably St. P but maybe I’ll buy you guys. Leah and I both really like obviously Sam on you and you guys are awesome. But then we went to Colorado. And I was like, bro, this is insane out here. So we talked about it and I think we’re gonna I think we’re gonna do to Colorado for a year first, right between my Denver and Boulder. I think we’re gonna go there first before

Nik 3:44
Yeah man, I lived in Utah. I like that that area, Utah, Colorado. There’s some really good neighborhoods out there. I just can’t deal with the cold. I actually lived in Tampa right near St. Pete for four years. That’s when I fell in love with South Florida. Work with Tampa Bay Buccaneers action. Yeah, remember that? Yeah. Love that area. Living I lived in Utah for four or five years when we built the agency and build everything up. I just had to leave the cold man. I can’t can’t do it anymore. But I’ve heard Colorado’s amazing, I’ve been out there a little bit but you know, it’s just cold. I like it. Yeah. It’s February rolling. It’s it’s a you can go outside and start sweating and go jump in the ocean. It’s amazing.

Josh 4:18
Yeah, it’s like, like 10 degrees here. So there’s that. But like, here’s Okay, so here’s the thing. And guys, we’re going to get into this. We’re going to wait for a couple people to tune in here, but we’re gonna recap where we left off. We’re gonna talk God, politics, religion, or not politics, God, religion, truth, social conditioning, which I’m very excited about. But the thing about Colorado dude really quick. in Omaha, it’s freezing cold, and it’s so ugly. It’s not pretty at all. It’s just barren fields. In Colorado. It’s like where we’re thinking about going is right in between boulder and Denver. And like you literally walk out and one view is Denver to the one side. And then the other view is like this gorgeous mountain range. And I’m like, I don’t know I feel like I could deal with the cold a little bit more if I’m if I’m dealing with that but who knows?

Nik 5:07
When I was in Utah we lived on the 18th green of a golf course we’re building a business and like I had a golf course in the mountains in the background. I’m like, you know what if I can’t be in the ocean, at least I got golf course and mountains and I felt the same way when I lived in Reno, which is right outside Lake Tahoe the Sierra Nevada which is another amazing area. Yeah, as well but

Josh 5:24
Do you golf?

Nik 5:25
Yeah, definitely.

Josh 5:26
Oh, nice. Well, I have to go golfing sometime. I’ve only got a couple times I suck at it. I won’t go I went golfing with Cody down in Florida. Last time I was down there we had a bunch of fun so I have to go golfing but alright bro. Let’s get started. Let’s dive into this kind of a layout for what people can expect here. I want to I want to take 510 minutes to kind of recap where we left off in the last episode. And more importantly, I think like just getting kind of clear on where you and I are both coming from and like your background. What you believe just like super vague, we don’t have to go into like specifics we can get into those later. But I want to give you the chance to basically state like, Hey, here’s what I believe. And then I’ll do the same thing. I’ll just I’ll let you start kind of little off there. But like, just summarize where you’re coming from, like the structural framework upon which you’re basing your beliefs. And then from there, we’ll go into and kind of lay the groundwork for this episode. And then just dive in.

Nik 6:28
Yeah, for sure. So I’m assuming psycho spiritual beliefs first. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Like spiritual beliefs where you get that? Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Um, my family, my father in law, people are still I grew up Christian, right. My dad is still attend church every Sunday, all that good stuff. And my journey has led me on a long trek to look at a lot of different religions and read a lot about a lot of different things. And where I’m coming from, is that most of the world’s major religions, if you really look closely, and you take out some of the doctrine, you take out some of the stuff that you admittedly written by man inside the Bible and stuff like that. They’re all saying very similar things, the nes that have at least lasted the test of time, you know, Buddhism, Christian Krishna, that or Hinduism, Muslim Christianity, there’s a lot of similarities to how they talk in regards to those back and now obviously don’t agree on everything. And there’s very specific big things that there’s big differences on, there’s a lot of similarities amongst us. So I tend to come from more of a Buddhist standpoint, and by that it’s really question everything and believe with their own heart and soul, I truly believe that there is a higher power to an extent, however, the vision of that higher power that I see is going to be different than the traditional Christians and it’s going to be a lot of focus our conversation is where, you know, there’s a dude in I could be completely wrong with some of this. But you know, there’s like a guy who’s kind of angry in the sky who like build things he’s like, he put evil here and this and that, and that type of stuff. But it’s more of a internal energy. I see it as like a source energy is really how I like to describe it that you can tap into it connect with the universe because I truly believe we’re all connected. Not like humans, people, animals, the universe. And I think that we’re just a very small piece on this earth in a large in part of a very large puzzle that we don’t we can’t possibly comprehend and we have no idea what’s going on with because where I’m sitting from. And this is where I really like to get in deeper with you and talking about religion specifically where they seems like we know this is the answer. We’ve got the answers what it says. It’s like, well, we don’t even really know what makes our heartbeat. We don’t know what stars are made out. We don’t know the galaxies, planets. I mean, it’s, yeah, there’s a lot that we don’t understand. So I like to stay optimistic and open to certain things not like this is truth. This is not so little summary of where I’m coming from. I’m open to all religious purpose. I actually think there’s a lot you can learn from so by no means don’t make it very clear for anyone listening by no means am I anti religion. I’m not now there’s certain specifics and things that happen amongst religions for that I don’t necessarily like concerned about every major war of all time has ever been ever is started because of religion and there’s been masters and death. But I also see the other side. So I’m not one of those people’s like anti religion sources like no rational with things that came for from religion, there’s a lot of morality and there’s a lot of self belief patterns. There’s a lot I mean, the Bible, the dhammapada, nobody gives some of those things those are those are old is personal development books known to man, that a lot of the personal development stuff that I’m big into these days, is written in those books. If you look closely, what I struggle with is the doctrine and, you know, some of the thinking of some of them, and then my full belief reverting back is your second source energy, energy that we help connect you there is a higher power, I don’t think there’s nothing you just want. Sounds good about my belief. So you know, it’s a good job kind of like yeah,

Josh 9:45
I think I think so. I think I summarize it well, and I’m sure we’ll dive into more specifics there. Just to clarify for those people that are listening, we’re going to refer for to the thing upon which you believe as the higher power whatever as source Is that cool?

Nik 10:00
Yeah.

Josh 10:01
Okay, so I’m going to refer to it as God. That’s what I believe in. And and when I refer to it as God, that’s, that’s Nik’s definition of source. And I’m sure we’ll draw parallels and differences there as the conversation goes on. But just so that we’re clear source is the higher power that you believe in more or less.

Nik 10:16
Yeah, exactly. And here’s the thing. I actually have no problem calling God. donors. Why do I think we should separate it for this is because then maybe we’ll find out? I don’t know. Hey, man, oh, yeah, I have different different views of what that term means, which I think everyone kind of does. Yeah, but I also suspect that by the end of this and kind of what sort of happened to the last bit of the last podcast is where we’re saying the same type of thing. We’re just believers a little bit different beliefs on how you can get there and act with it right? Yeah, yeah. The same thing at the end of the day so so I think that you using those terms is good, but just know that I’m not like afraid of the term god, I’m fine. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So but I think for this purpose, it makes sense to separate it just because there is God There’s a certain image source energy of certain dimension that’s probably more honest.

Josh 11:04
Yeah. And and the God of the Bible, which is what where I’m coming from and what I believe. The Bible specifically says that we were made in the image of God. So very, a lot of times Christians, people that refer to God think of God as more of a human like figure. Whereas you’re saying it’s much more of an energy source, or at least that’s kind of where you’re coming from. A knowing a truth, a source of energy there, so Okay, I think that did that really, really well. So for those of you that don’t know what I believe, or where I’m coming from here, just to kind of recap that same thing. I grew up Christian as well. I never left the faith, but I definitely questioned a lot of things I kind of, I left my relationship with God in the sense of I’m for about a year or two there. I just kind of did my own thing didn’t go to church didn’t really read the Bible, and kind of went off on my own path per se. And then beginning of 2018 is when I kind of had a big huge massive collapse in my own life with, you know, the financial space and just with everything that was going on. And that’s when I went down this rabbit hole of mindsets and learning about the mind and how it works. And that really led me back to God. And for me, that led me back to the God of the Bible. And that’s where I really started studying. However, you know, I’ve gone on record and said this many times, I still do question a lot of the things that the Bible I’m not, as of now 100% convinced that the Bible is completely without flaw. I default to believing that what the Bible says is true until proven otherwise. But I am not one to say that I am completely convinced that there is no fault or flaw in the Bible whatsoever. The reason I believe in the Bible or the God of the Bible and in Christianity is because I believe that Christianity best answers the core questions that we must answer about mankind. I believe there. There’s four core questions. We have to be able to

Look at purpose, meaning origin, I’m sorry, purpose, meaning destiny and morality, right? So you have to define those four things when we’re looking at humankind as a whole. And I believe that Christianity does the best way of doing those things in a coherent way that all four of them collectively together. Make sense. I also believe that in defining truth, I believe that we really, really, really need to look at truth. And I know we’re going to start off on that topic here as well. I think that in order to define truth, we have to look at defining what evil is we have to look at defining what justice is, we have to look at defining what love is, and we have to look at what forgiveness looks like, right? Like, and in those four categories. And we can talk further about why I believe those things, but I’m coming this from a perspective that the reason I believe in God of the Bible, specifically, is that I believe that the story of God, Jesus Christ and the story that the Bible presents best accurately represents mankind, answering the four core questions which I answered them. So that’s kind of my belief pattern.

And where I come from Nik and I, and I’m sure we’ll get into, you know, religious questions and you know, things like that. I think that you and I actually agree on a lot of core things of what makes people better. I actually think that you and I just, I mean, agree on a lot of like core characteristics of how we should live and what good is and what bad is, I think where you and I differ is how we come to that conclusion, or maybe the origin of good and bad or how that’s defined and in specific terminology, but I think we’ll dive further into that. One of the things that I want to kind of paint the picture of is how this episode is going to work. I’m going to be asking Nik questions, but Nik is also going to be asking me questions. One of the things that we’re not trying to do here is we’re not just going for who is right, and I’m not trying to prove him wrong. I don’t think he’s trying to prove me wrong. Where we’re focusing on and what we’re doing here is having an open conversation and this is going to be probably a two hour long interview or so provided, you know, Nik is able to make it back on here where we’re going to have an open discussion about starting with truth. And the reason we’re starting with truth is because I think we have to define what we’re saying is true or not true. I mean, truth, runs everything that you know, we do have moral boundaries, whatever. Oh, is that statement true? Or is it not true as writers wrong is all based in truth. So we’re going to start there. And then we’re going to switch over to the topic of morality and where belief is formed and how good and evil is, you know, formed and right and wrong, per se. And then from there, we will transition over then into, excuse me, social conditioning, and basically, how social norms and the social culture upon which we live in are shaping who we are today and and really, ultimately shape. Every society right, like the social norms of America are different than the social norms of the Middle East are different than the social norms of even Mexico or Canada or you know, things like that and, and there’s even social norms within America and you know, New York is obviously much different than, you know, a farm town, Indiana, per se. So that’s kind of where we’re going to have our focus. That’s what we’re going to focus on with everything. and go from there. I’m hoping next is gonna pop on here. The other thing that I did want to mention is Nik is probably one of the most amazing, uplifting like, good vibes person that ever met my life. He’s so so so super. Excuse me, so So, so super cool. But Nik does use strong language. And so if you’re listening right now, we’re going to Yeah, just want to kind of give a strong language warning before we dive into it, because language will probably be used for that in this episode, so alright, let’s rock and roll. I did. I think we have to start with truth and defining where truth comes from and how we are determining what is ultimately true and not true. I absolutely believe in absolute truth in the world. And so I’m gonna I’m happy to explain that more if that question arises, but I’m gonna turn it over to you. Do you believe Absolute Truth and if so what kind of where does that come from?

Nik 17:03
Yeah, so something you said because I knew we’re going to start with with truth. But I almost think we need to backtrack a minute here. Let’s go back. I truly absolute truth. I think that after thinking about it a lot, I don’t fully believe in absolute truth, it’s very, it’s borderline impossible. I’m going to talk about that. Okay, because we need to discuss first because you know, until you can get to an absolute truth, first we need to understand meaning, because you brought you said meaning is one of the things need to understand. But in order for us to get to absolute truth and things like justice or what’s right and what’s wrong, we need to first understand what those things mean to individuals, right? Yes, let’s actually truth to you is going to be very different than absolute truth to someone who grows up in a different zip code in Asia, right? They’re going to have very different beliefs on that type of stuff. Regardless, in Christianity, there’s different truths because we all have different meanings from it. So in order for us to define an absolute truth, which I would love for you to give, explain a little bit more on that. Yeah, we do that without first identifying what we do.Things mean to us.

Josh 18:02
What do you mean by we need to first identify what they mean? Like, why is that relevant to? Let’s say justice for it? There’s absolute truth and justice. Tell me what you mean by that. So, my, when I say absolute truth, I mean,

there is an absolute yes or no absolute right or wrong or not even right and wrong, because that’s a question of morality, but there are absolute fundamental laws of the universe. And I’m not just talking about earth or the solar system of the galaxy, I’m talking about the entirety of the universe of everything that’s created that that are either a true or not true statement. Alright, so I’m saying there are governing laws that are true, and this may be only one or two or three things, right. And then everything else may be relative within that, but I’m saying absolute truth must exist, because and I’m going to use the cliche analogy I’m sure you’ve heard I think we brought it up.

Last in the last conversation, if someone were to come to me and say, Josh, I don’t believe that absolute truth exists. My question to them would be, is that an absolutely true statement? Because if absolute truth does not exist, then that is an absolute statement in and of itself that would deem to be true. So in my argument, or my defense here, I’m saying those implode upon themselves that statement imposed by himself. So I’m saying because of that, because of the laws of logic, and where, where we’re operating from truth, in some format, some form of absolute must exist. And maybe that could be in a different format than we understand that might not be in the typical understanding of like a law or a saying, but I’m saying there has to be a governing truth of something to say that is right, or that is wrong. This is true. That is not true. In order for us to come to the reality that it is yes, obvious. I’ll let you go.

Nik 19:57
There you go. I got you. So with that, Now there because you’re seeing it, Mike. And you’re saying two different things that when you say truth versus not and then right versus wrong. Yeah. those are those are wrong. There’s a wrong analogy, governing laws of like the universe, I actually tend to believe that there is governing specific laws of the universe. Now, when it comes to how men specifically us should behave, and we can get to the morality, that’s where I think we really, really were not aligned last time. Right, right, right. I don’t think there’s an absolute right or wrong when it comes to human behavior. When it comes to universe, I definitely believe that there’s something way more powerful that we can even comprehend out there and there’s certain things that are absolutely true gravity, that type of stuff, you know, that those types of nature’s of it now,

Josh 20:41
Can I can I go one step further with that, though, just on that specific thing and say,

let’s look at the question of God. All right. Does God Exist? There’s either yes or no. The statement God exists is either a true statement, or it is not a true statement. It can’t be a reality.

massively true statement? Because it can’t be like God exists for you. But he doesn’t exist for me. No, like, either God exists or he doesn’t exist. And so where I think, I don’t know if you and I actually disagree on a whole lot of this, I think like you said the morality issue might be, but my point in saying this is, there absolutely must be a format of truth, because any question whether you’re like, well, is that a true statement? Yes or no? Like, in and of itself? You can be like, no, that’s not a true statement, because truth is relative. And I’m like, it can’t be relative, because Does God Exist? Yes or no? Simply answering that question. There is no middle ground on that. And that’s the type of truth that I’m talking there’s absolutes within the laws of the universe, or the laws of you know, we’re not arguing who God is or what he looks like or how he interacts with our lives. That’s all up for debate. And we’re going to talk about that when it comes to morality and goodness and all that but the absolute, the absolute of, Does God Exist or not? There has to be an absolute truth there does. They’re not let me let me try and take them back. That will be

Nik 22:00
Because I think in order to get to that, so basically, and this is where I’d be coming from this might be what you’re saying you let me know, right? Essentially, there’s objective reality, reality exists, right? There’s objective reality and then there’s what exists in regards to human subjection, or the subjective part of reality hundred right? We all tell ourselves different stories about the environment and everything that’s going on around us. There’s essentially two realities playing at all times. There’s an outer world and there’s an inner world right? If you’re saying that there is truth to an extent in the outer world, then yes, I would actually think there is absolute truth to the way outer world is where everything gets screwy is humans meaning and inter interpretation of what happens in the objective outer world and that we can attach meaning to I love this okay, I’m so glad you brought this up. And I’ve said this actually multiple times after our conversation I actually went and like dove into this further, I believe there’s two types of truth that we need to look at on a daily basis. The first time or I’m sorry, it when it comes to the whole grand scheme of things, but only one of them we need to focus on it on daily basis. Two types of truth

Josh 23:00
Absolute Truth of the universe, there are fundamental truths that apply to everyone equally because they are absolute. That may be one that maybe three and maybe 20. I don’t know what that number is, but that those truths are absolutes. And it’s more than likely that we will not actually be ever able to validate that what those truths actually are until after we die. We can speculate all day long to say, God is real. God is not real. One of those things is true. Technically, we’re at and we can’t actually prove it until we die, right? But there is truth there. The second type of truth is individual truth. And the individual truth is how we choose to operate and our own personal truth on a daily basis. And I believe that our own personal truth cannot contradict absolute truth. However, I believe there is massive amounts of freedom within those personal truths, that something may be true for you and not for me, but it just can’t contradict

The overarching truth of the universe. Does that make sense?

Nik 24:03
Yeah, it does. And I’m curious on that, because I agree, like if there’s an objective truth, we want to say that there’s some sort of government that the universe works in very unique and interesting ways. Just like our bodies work in very unique and interesting ways. That galaxies, all that type of stuff. So I agree with that. There’s an objective reality. And then there’s the inner world, right? Or inner world, which is where we all live, which is really what should be matter, like seven a day to day basis, because I like you said, You can’t prove the Absolute Truth. Right? And you can’t you know, there’s a table here technically, this is 99%. You know, quantum physics like literally, no, I know, but its energy is crazy. Now, you said something there, though, that I do. I want you to elaborate on because I don’t think I agree with what I first heard there. And you said that your personal truth, and it is where I don’t like the word truth. And I think this is where we really got hung up. Because I don’t like the word truth for personal truth and things like that. Everything’s it’s all relative. Everything is it depends on the context of the situation. But you said there and we’ll come back to that in a minute. Yeah.

He said that your personal truth, can’t control

Absolute Truth. But when you can’t define and can’t actually know what Absolute Truth is, because nobody does, how can you have a personal truth that might not contradict it or not?

Josh 25:08
Yes. And that’s a great question. So, once again, this is me coming from a biblical standpoint and belief, right of what I am and, and by the way, I tried to take this out of biblical and look at it objectively as well. But I believe that there are things that we must accept by faith, right like there, there are things that in life, we’re not going to know until we die. So what we what we need to do is we need to use the logical reasoning that we have been given based on the laws of logic based on what we do understand, to draw

to draw parallels and information about truth. So if I’m going to go and I have notes here written down actually about this, if I’m going to go and try to figure out what Absolute Truth is, I have to go look at individual statements that if I go okay if if this statement is true about truth, and this statement is true about truth and this statement is true about truth if all these things

Things are all true about truth, and they don’t contradict each other, then I can draw a logical conclusion to say that this is true. I can’t prove it. Because I’m not dead yet. I can’t prove that there’s a God. But I can look at this fact this fact this fact this fact this fact and this fact. And I believe the the core elements there are evil, we gotta define what evil is, we’ve got to define what justice is, we’ve got to define what love is, and we got to find what forgiveness is, like those four things. If we can, then then we can draw this parallel the truth. So if I accept the fact and if I believe that there is a God is a true statement, then my personal truth can say, My God, to me looks like this. Right? And God may be speaking to you differently, differently than he is speaking to me. But what can’t happen is I can’t say, my truth that we’re calling you. I know you don’t like the word but like for the sake of the conversation, my personal truth has a god your personal truth.

doesn’t have a god. That’s not a thing, because the absolute law of the universe says God exists. So in some format or another, so if God exists, he exists for everyone. Not no one. That’s what I’m saying or not, not just some people. So what I’m saying is is your is absolutes. And granted, obviously, like, I’m the one that’s ultimately coming to the conclusion of what those absolutes are. But I think that those, but I think that no matter where you are in the world, and no matter where you are, in reality, there’s just a few core statements that you have to answer in order to come to the reality that there is absolute truth. And does that make sense? Yeah, to an extent.

Nik 27:40
Now, one thing that I want to want to bring up and I want to talk about these these truths, right, because, you know, when you say that, so actually there’s there’s a lot of things Am I right? So that is the first thing I want to go with. So let’s, let’s say that there is, let’s say that, you know, God does exist, right. And I’m not even sure that we necessarily disagree on that and extent. It’s more of how

We view it like I mean, different aspects, you know, I’m saying I read it there now, if it’s got to exist for me or for everyone, let’s just say me right? For example, let’s you know, this is any person who’s not the Christian faith. Right? So when you say that he has to exist for everyone, so what is holding people back from connecting with with God that do you think it’s information? Is it connection to it? Is it opening up as information? Right? So if you see I’m saying, so it’s like, if you say that God has to exist for everyone, right? Whether yes or no, so are you just saying that I’m telling myself a story that it doesn’t exist and basically buying myself from the information? Or why is it that certain people don’t if that’s the Absolute Truth, does that make sense? The question I’m asking, why is it that some people have a hard time accepting that He exists? No. So you basically what you said was like, so based on your absolute truth, there is a God Yes. Right. And it doesn’t matter that I might perceive that differently. You might perceive it differently. He either exists or he does he doesn’t enjoy right now. If it let’s say it doesn’t, you know, for

For this purpose, and I’m not even saying I don’t believe in God, right?

Then let’s say you believe that God doesn’t exist. Yeah, let’s say let’s say that you know, and so how is that not an absolute truth? Or how is that not? Or how do I get to a point where we’re gonna try to ask it?

What’s what would like what do you think stopping people from from realizing the Absolute Truth? Let’s just start with that actually. Yeah. Because I’m trying to figure out exactly what I’m trying to get out here. Because let’s just assume that you think there’s absolute truth there. What stopped you from getting to that? Yeah. So I honestly believe that it’s a choice. And I want to clarify that because I think a lot of people are like, Oh, well, you know, and everybody has.

Josh 29:41
I believe that if you look, the way that I come to the conclusion, that absolute truth exists, and that the statement that God is real, is a true statement is through the logical

mechanisms that will

are given in with it within our power. So if I look and use logical reasoning and say, Okay, is there evil in the world? Yes or no? You would say yes. Right? I would say yes. So if I go down that rabbit hole, I would go okay, if there’s evil, there must also be good. If there is evil and good, there must be a moral law if there was a moral law there must be a moral lawgiver. Okay, so there’s one conclusion that leads me to believe Oh, there’s God and then I go to the next question I go

Nik 30:28
I want to go down let’s go down this chain actually because this isn’t it. Let’s start here. Why would Why must there be a moral lawgiver? What does that mean? So me to jump there which I agree there is I mean, in every every ancient civil I mean, you got Yin and Yang. I mean, it’s always about black darkness and lightness. You know, this has been going on for way before the Bible even came out. Yes, I have a Serbian moral lawgiver.

Josh 30:51
Because everything in and of itself right now like, everything has a create. I mean, like if you look at this iPhone, there’s a creator for it. Right? And I know this is

A simplified example but I’m gonna bring this around. Okay? So I look at this and I say, well, this phone just didn’t exist. It just didn’t it just appear somebody created this phone, right? So everything has a creator, physically here on this earth has a creator and has meaning given to it by its creator. Alright, so there’s the thing that is created and then there’s the meaning behind it. So when it comes to good and evil and moral law, there is a creator of the moral law, meaning behind an iPhone, what’s the meaning by Steve Jobs, the iPhone, whatever I mean, to help you that they have a meaning behind it, but what if he was making a product to solve a problem? You know, like, That’s the meaning. That’s like, what, what if it’s a chia pet that means it like for entertainment, that type of stuff, but there, there’s a meaning and a purpose behind why this phone actually exists. Like, the meaning behind this phone is to talk on the phone or to your song. Like there’s there’s something

Some inherent reason and meaning behind why it exists nothing like its value its meaning its purpose is given to it by its creator. I could have created this look alike phone thing and been like its meaning and purpose. It I created it to be a foot stand. I you know what I mean? But like, I’m not the one that created this, I’m not the one that ultimately gave this bonus meaning Steve Jobs did or Apple, you know.

So, so when we look at good and evil and moral law, it needed to come from somewhere, and it needs to have a meaning to it. So there’s something someone had to give it its meaning someone had to be the one that actually defined it. It had to come from some were right. If it didn’t come from somewhere, then like, where did it come from? Right. Like it had to exist from something and we’re saying that that is God and intelligent source that went and created it whether however, we want to look at God, it doesn’t matter right now. Okay. God created it. So I look at that and I go and I just

Go down the rabbit hole of first looking at evil, okay, if there be evil to be good and there will be good, there must be a moral law in order to be a moral law, there must be a moral lawgiver. Then I go to the next question, and I go, Okay, so if there’s evil, then there must be justice. All right, so let’s look at justice. And then I go down that rabbit hole. And that leads me to believe Okay, well, in order to get there be justice. Let’s talk about justice. Really quick. Tell me more about your thoughts, your thoughts there. So, justice, if there is evil in there, someone does something and it’s bad or evil as we’re doing to this. Like, if I were to if someone were to go and rape somebody, right, that’s an evil thing. We’re doing that if that person gets away with it, there is no justice. But we believe in justice. We believe that in order for a broad or an evil to be made, right, there must be an action or a thing that happens that brings those people to justice, right. That’s a logical conclusion that we can draw. Sure, who defines justice. Exactly. We defined right and wrong. Exactly. Moral Law moral law defined by moral lawgiver.

Nik 34:00
So what I’m saying is that if if let’s justice in the United States isn’t justice in Asia, but but that’s but that’s where it becomes that that’s where more becomes relevant. I mean, like justice for oh my gosh, smoking weed. That’s God is not the one that defines justice right or wrong whether smoking weed is bad or not. But that’s not the Justice we’re talking about. We’re talking about the overarching concept of justice itself. You’re right. But justice is completely subjective. That’s what I’m getting. And honestly, so is evil. And in it’s completely subjective, but we we see it is not. But what if you come from a different belief pattern, but what a different zip code that you were born, where you’re raised something differently, but justice, the fact that justice Excel itself exists, has to come from somewhere, does it not? Or do you not believe that, like, Justice comes from a human definition of what we believe is evil and not evil? So where does evil and non evil get determined by how humans

Decide what they decide that the standards have changed over the last thousands of years. That’s where that’s where this is. Yeah, let’s let’s get to this because that is where social conditioning comes into play. It gets defined, and it’s created by what you were conditioned to believe. So okay, so but so let’s look at extreme.

Josh 35:17
Let’s look at the extreme here for a second. Okay? There are children right now over in the Middle East, that wake up at three years old, four years old, and they’re taken up to the top of a mountain, they’re pointed out over and look at Israel or whatever. And they are told from the day that they’re born, that your entire purpose and goal in life is to go kill those type of people, right? And they are literally programmed social condition to the absolute max like that. That is what they’re designed to do, and they are going to go and they’re going to rape people and kill people and shoot people. And we think that you and I would agree, and I think that everyone would agree. I think that Richard Dawkins, the atheist would agree. That is evil, right?

Nik 36:00
What they are doing is evil, except for the people who are doing it. But that doesn’t make it not evil. Well, if the whole con if the whole world was doing it, they were conditioned to believe it, then would it be evil, then there’s not even a conversation for it. Because it just be the normal the normal way of living. And this is our definition, it’s our conditioning. But yes, I’m back home. I’m vehemently against this. But for if you look at all of human history, up until like, the last hundred years, all we do is swap or each other. I feel like that a lot of people, you know, but it was a normal thing to do. I feel like it would have been evil to spend thousands of years where kings ruled peasants and fucking beat him and rape them and did all this type of stuff. But it was normal and no one knew it was evil because they never thought about it. They didn’t even realize that the other side was going on it. So uprising, small groups, people being like, hey, maybe this isn’t a good idea, you know, but but it’s not a good idea. Because of Why? Because some groups of people think it’s evil. So does evil exist? It exists Yes, it exists to our to what we believe in. Yes. I

Absolutely.

We’re evil.

Josh 37:03
Okay, but if if I think that something is okay. And you don’t think it’s okay. Right? And I’m just gonna go back to this is a very very simple analogy of it and I’m genuinely curious here, right? I, I think that killing someone is totally fine. You don’t decide to kill someone. Well, it’s not evil It’s not wrong or whatever. Is it evil?

Nik 37:25
To me it is. But should I be punished for it? To me You should but but should I actually be punished for it if I don’t think it’s wrong or evil? It’s but see that here’s the thing. It’s not about what you think it’s about what society thinks it’s about the society they used to cut people’s heads off all the time for non shift If like me, so hope you’ll down and killman witchcraft and people are burning people at the stakes because everyone else does. So this is where I wanted to get this social conditioning because everything in your life is like into unless you can really start to question everything. And even me, I’m no saint when it comes to this. Everything your life depends on where zipcode you

Were born in what the people around you believe, like that’s gonna be the biggest influence, you know, factor ever I think we talked about this in the last podcast. I don’t think there’s an income or I don’t think there’s a there’s an income gap. I think there’s a there’s a zip code gap and knowledge gap. That’s really what it comes down to. So the definition of evil is in the eyes of the beholder, we believe, wholeheartedly, I believe you that you fully 100% believe some of these things are evil. So why, but why do you? How do you define evil? Like, how do you? How do you define what evil actually is? Yep, hurting others, taking them down. But again, that’s where we can get into I would like to hear your thoughts and influence versus manipulation as well. And I don’t remember if we talked about that one. But the definition of evil is, in the eyes of your, in my opinion, the most evil thing we can do is put people in the public school system in the United States of America right now like that the most evil is one of the most evil things right? Because it’s so fucking broken. But I’m in a very small minority that because I’m one of the only people who I feel

I can see I know you I think we I know we agree on this topic. But But okay, but sorry really really quickly just because this is where I am. I’m curious here. You just said you think it’s evil and you are in the minority. But beforehand you said Good and Evil is defined as a genuine question I’m not trying to like trap your words I’m trying to understand but the collective hole is what decides Good and Evil so if you guess that’s not what I meant That’s what I meant by being okay in society you asked me what okay be punished and as the collective holes because they’re the ones who are going to be able to come out and do it that’s what I mean by that not by it’s a groupthink type situation with drifting does exist. So that’s, I’m glad you clarified that. Okay.

Josh 39:43
Okay. So but if you think that it is evil, what like what makes you right? Like, how are you defining like, Is it just whatever you feel and then feelings change? Are you saying that good and evil can change? I do think they can change Yes.

Nik 40:00
For one, and this is where I think it comes in. And this actually, the question is asked me, is what I would ask you about being so certain about Christianity in the Bible, right? That’s what, that’s what we’re gonna we’re alluding to, right? No, we’re going, but what makes me think I’m right. Honestly, I just observed and I like to think I think logically, humans don’t think logically at all I know you mentioned we’re going to take this logical thing but I actually did some preparation on the illogical behavior of all humans all the time. We don’t do anything logically really.

But from my opinion, from my viewpoint, that I’ve seen my comp it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to let’s use the that public education crap system or whatever I like to not teach philomath or I’m sorry, not teach you what finances or how to build value or skills and teach them to their victims. And I know I’m using for anyone listening. I’m using very broad tongra

me for that, but as a whole, it’s spitting out people who are depressed, anxious, not able to convert value and a lot of issues that are there.

Coming on right now. Yeah. And so that’s why I believe I’m right there. But here’s the thing I would never I wouldn’t be able to say this is an absolute truth is a Subjective Truth based on how I think the world should be live. And the reason why I think that that should happen is because I judge things based on and this is where and maybe this is maybe this will be query for you. For me.

Happiness, like true deep down fulfillment, happiness, that’s what the purpose of life is to me. You talked about purpose or a purpose life is true, deep down happiness, fulfillment, and I do not mean

instant gratification Sex, drugs, alcohol, that type of stuff. When it comes to happiness. I have a long history of that and it’s not doesn’t get you where you want to go. Right. So So okay, hold on. I’m sorry. So singers evil verse nine, is it leading to something who’s bringing fulfillment joy, happy all the time stuff. Now, there’s certain ways where you can break that like, I mean, sorry, pause

Josh 41:48
Really, really quick, then you can pick up the comment. I just wanna clarify what you said there. So you did you just say that the purpose that you believe the purpose of life is for happiness.

Nik 41:56
I think the purpose of life is to grow and become fulfilled and contribute

values to others. Okay, the purpose.

Josh 42:02
So the purpose of life is to for growth and to contribute back to others. Yeah. Okay, sorry, continue. I just want to make sure I’m clear on that. Okay.

Nik 42:10
I don’t want to sit here and say this is all about living sunshine Rainbows, I think actually to become truly fulfilled and truly happy. You have to go through a lot of heartbreak issues, toughness, things of that nature. So like, I don’t want to get caught up in like, everyday should just be like this protective cage. It’s not relevant. Right. Um, so that’s where I, you know, decided my thing with evil. But here’s the thing. I don’t know if I’m fully right, do I? Do I ever know, I’m right. No, I make decisions based on what I think is going to do what’s best for other people. But again, the my whole point with all of this is it’s all because of my conditioning and what I want to see and what I think is best for reality. And that’s in my in my opinion, this is what I would love to hear your feedback. Yeah. The reason why people are the religion that they are is because of the zip code that they were born and where they grew up. And that’s where it this is where I wouldn’t want to search with challenge a little bit on some of these things, which is it’s very easy to print.

It doesn’t take a whole lot to prove that rally going to do is look at the percentage of people who are religious right in China and America. Right, right. Right. And that on, but that puts everything and that’s how evil and good and the society is to find. Let’s take 911, for example. And for anyone watching, let’s just assume that happened because of terrorism, at least you know that stuff. I know, there’s a lot of other stuff out there, wherever, you know, and all that right. But one event, one event, right to happen. There is a nation that mourned and thought was the most evil thing ever. And there’s another nation that thought it was the most justice, the justice was served, and we’re happy. Right? And so one same event, two different reactions to it. That’s like my main point is like, right, every is subjective of how we view reality. And it’s all an illusion, like upstairs. I mean, if you start looking at quantum theory in quantum physics, the illusion of reality is persistent, right, like our mindsets that are realities of an illusion, albeit a persistent one. So basically, this idea of evil and good can flow and change based on new facts.

I’m open to new facts coming into place, you know, and it’s defined based on the individuals that are, you know, Nik conditioning where you grew up.

Josh 44:07
For sure. So, my quiet Okay, so let me ask you this. So going back and I think I misspoke with the fourth questions that you have to answer I think I said purpose and meaning its origin meaning, so we have to define our origin or define our meaning. We have to define our destiny and we have to define morality, right? That’s what I believe are the four core key questions to life. Okay, because if we can define those four things, everything else falls into place. Okay. So you are saying, and correct me if I’m wrong on this, and I’m here to understand that you believe that morality GOOD BAD evil, not evil. However, it is saying this is subjective, based on somebody’s belief, all right. So if that be the case, good and bad, okay. The, the origin like that, the I the idea and the concept of good and bad

Had to enter the universe or reality. At some point, would you agree with that statement or not? Sure. Um, I mean, it entered his reality at some point, it’s a thought in somebody’s head and that message gets spread. Yes. But like the idea of

well, that is good and that is bad in general. Like the the fact that we even comprehend that

I guess what I’m, I guess what I’m getting at and I’m curious are your thoughts on this is like, if, if good and bad is subjective, then does it even exist at all? Like if it’s, like, are all actions, just things are all actions and all things just there? And it’s just simply our interpretation? So like, rape isn’t actually bad. It’s just our interpretation of it.

Nik 45:50
That is, that is what I’m getting at and uses the most extreme example, okay, okay. I’m sorry, sorry. And that’s fine. And I know that sounds terrible. Again, I’m for anyone listening. I got to be very clear.

Right. It’s disgusting. I think it’s the worst thing in the world, right? We make our decisions based off it. But yes, I mean, Shakespeare said it beautifully when he said something along the lines of nothing in life is good or bad thinking makes it. So the only way that we base the way we live our lives, the way that we grow. And you know this with neurons and resourcing the brain and how things created is there is experience. And then we have a reference point. And we decided to ourselves a story around that experience. And then from there, we start to form beliefs, those beliefs start to dictate and create the world we have around us. And if you’re talking about good and bad, it’s shifted in the Christian religion over the last 2000 years. So as you can even say, for there, I mean, in the Bible, and even in this I think this is actually in the Old Testament. So I don’t want to run with sacrificing goats, pigs. I mean, there’s a lot of random stuff. The Vatican has done some very, very nasty, disgusting, horrific things that church has for thousands of years and they still do they still cover up all kinds of pedophile pedophilia, and that you see that stuff happen all the time, right? I’m not gonna agree. Right. Excited to church with that.

Nik nastiness. My point is nastiness exists everywhere in human nature, we all haven’t been able to start to, you know, for lack of a better term, raise our consciousness levels, right? Like I mean, I’m definitely in some that new age that thought where you can start to raise a conscious and that’s where you start to realize, you know what is actually going to be good and bad. But at the end of the day, I believe what you just said, there is an event or viewpoint around the event, the story we tell ourselves about the event, then it goes on from there now what can happen from there is you can either start to again, it’s all comes down to what we think so I’ll let you say that looks like you’re gonna say something that but yes, to address it. I that’s that’s what I believe now there are certain things it would be very difficult for us to comprehend. They weren’t evil 911, for example, but again, if you look at a group that was on the other side of the world, they want to feel evil at all, they feel like they would have felt joyful because of the conditioning and the belief in the stories that they had been told. Everything comes down to the story that not only you’re told, and then the story you tell yourself about the events that’s happening around me that’s old light for listening, and if you can shift and shift that story, this is a quick personal moment for me.

If you want to shift the story about and reframe the events that are going on around you, it’ll change your freakin life. But anyways, go ahead. Okay. So I want to go back to the creation of things. Okay. Yeah, cuz you know, and with that, because I’m glad he did that because I wanted to go there. One I want you to I wanna hear about origin and what your definition you can explain that. And then number two, why is it those four questions? Why does that have to be what leads to the Absolute Truth? I should ask that earlier? Yeah, you get into it like, yeah.

Josh 48:28
So I’m actually start with the latter question there, then why those four specific questions can

I am open to hearing additional questions above and beyond that, but I think it is at least those four minimum questions that we must answer. Here’s why. Because if we can first identify our origin, where we civilization universe reality came from, all right, if we know that, then we know God or the governing power that creates

at us, we can then identify, okay? A he’s real, he exists, right? If we know where we came from, and or if it wasn’t God, what did create a spread? And to, then we can go and say, Okay, now that we’ve identified that he that we were created by something where we came from, now we have to go and say, Okay, so what is the meaning or purpose of our creation? Well guess what, in order to figure out the meaning and purpose of our creation, who or what do we need to go look it to? We need to go look to the Creator, right? So if if I’m determining, like, hey, what is my purpose in this world? What is the meaning? Why am I here? Right? Like, what am I supposed to do? I need to go and say, all right, well, if I want to know what the purpose of the iPhone was, I would go ask Steve Jobs. So if I want to go know what I’m here for, then I need to go ask my Creator God. Then destiny, which is where is the

Ultimate place upon which we’re going, where are we headed? Right? So our purpose and our destiny, they go very close with each other. The reason we’re here is to do blank where we’re headed is to go blank, very similar to like marketing, right? Like, why are we all here? Where are we going? Right? And in order to do that, we once again, where are we going with the iPhone? What is its purpose, the ultimate goal, the ultimate destiny that we’re going towards is blank, once again, also determined by the Creator, which we’re going to get to by determining where we originated from. And then the Lastly, morality good and evil, because if something was created, then we can look at it and you and I can speculate all day long. Man, this is an iPhone or this is this or whatever. But Steve Jobs was the one that created it. He’s the one that’s going to determine whether this was a phone first or a you know, a social economic thing. Firstly, whatever, you know, whatever it was, we go back and we say, Hey, is is this good or bad? If we can look at the origin the person that or thing that created reality created us, gave us our meaning gave us our

purpose, that person or thing would ultimately be the one that determines what good or bad is. That is why I believe that those four questions need to be answered. That make sense?

Nik 51:10
Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting there’s that there’s a lot we can go on to that. But let’s start with the word because that’s the that’s the hardest Domino that’s the one that it’s like okay, convince me that you can even nail that the first step in a domino like I mean that’s that’s the one that’s the most

so yes proven against it. Actually, let’s let’s start with that but well, okay, I’d be curious know what you mean by that? Because like we do exist, right? Well, I meant that the proof of man mankind evolution versus creation, but like we exist, like we do agree. Like we’re here right? So like, even if it is a simulation, or like whatever we we exist, so we kick we did we did come from somewhere. Sorry, keep going. I think you tell me about your thoughts emerge. And I’ll tell you about where I would leave on because I actually think that the two can coexist, but that’s the difference what a creator and a

evolution as well. But I just you know, I believe I believe in a creator, I just don’t believe it. I don’t believe in one Bible one book, this is right versus wrong. Like, if we’re just gonna get very scissor handed, I believe that there is some sort of creation of things out there in the world. It’s a tiny, miniscule piece of it little tiny piece of a giant puzzle that we don’t understand. But I’m curious, your thoughts are of origin because that’s the first domino we need to knock over and you’re saying, I believe in Christianity, and that’s where I can draw truth. And this is where I can start to develop the rules for my life, which is essentially what we’re trying to do here is like, rules for how we can live and navigate and what the fuck is going on to this world.

Josh 52:36
Route Right, right. So so we accept the fact that we exist right? In some format or another we are here what I mean like we, right we are, even if it’s a figment of our imagination, our imagination exists, right? We have some form of consciousness here, right? That came from somewhere like there was a beginning point because we operate in the construct of time now.

If you were to use the argument, which some people are brought up will be like, well, it’s just infinite. It’s forever. Like, you know, it’s we’re just a thing in the dominoes of life, right? If If there was no concept of time in the construct that we live in, we live in the construct of time. Now, obviously, God is outside of time, or God is above time. But and time is just a paradox. I understand that I believe that but there had to be a beginning to our existence. Because if in order to get to us, where we’re just knocking over a bunch of dominoes, and then we’re the next Domino to fall before us, the first domino had to knock over if there was an infinite number of dominoes, there would be no starting point, it would never have started the process of actually knocking over us, right. So we had to come from somewhere. There had to be a starting point of the existence of something whether it’s the Big Bang or a molecule or something, it was created, bang, it goes into existence, called the Big Bang, call it God. So I’m saying where does our origin actually come from? I believe, when I look around, in the social content in using the laws of

logic and looking around at what we have, that the evidence points to an intelligent creator. Okay? Based on the logic of everything, when you look at the picture as a whole, and you look at good and evil, and you look at justice and when you look at morality, and when you look at, you know, love and you look at the intelligent creator, I believe I believe in intelligence. That’s what I mean by source, I believe that there is an intelligence there. So I’m with you on that. So so now that one, physicists say that stuff, right they, because they’re using that to define something that we can’t, we don’t know how to define yet, right? There is something there that we’re missing. And that could be a creative, that’s what it points to. But again, it’s something that we’re missing so we can’t explain certain things. This is all the latest quantum theory and I’m sure you’ve seen how you can think and heal yourself. So just keep going with Yeah, but but we but we came from we came from something we had an origin and the origin came from based on the laws of logic and what we look at and when you look at evil and whatever, and we could go down that rabbit hole of all these different things, but when you look at the collective whole of the world’s decide

What we know science, Bible emotion, logic, everything we go, you know what it leads us to believe that there was an origin and I am choosing to believe, based on looking at all the other facts that that came from an intelligent creator. Okay, you also agree with that? We correct like we disagree on the fact of what that God or intelligent creator may look like.

Nik 55:20
But there’s more to life than we understand. So here’s here’s the thing is we use logic lot there. And one one thing that I like to live in is going to share background philosophy and how I come up with my decisions and analyze decisions and things like that. Yeah. Every time in human history that we have recorded, doesn’t matter that we have lived by logic, we have been 100% wrong. So I get extremely nervous when we start using logic as if there’s all kinds of truth 500 years ago, the world was flat. Well, you know, the hundreds of years or 100 years ago, there was gonna be no more technological, you know, evolutions, you know, there’s, we’ve science is always wrong, you know. So that’s where I think it’s funny, and I’m sure you bring that up a lot. If you’re having science versus Christianity basis. I

is always wrong for sure, yes, but not lead to the next path. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s useless, you’ve got to get some how to build on it. And because of previous science thought that we need to be able to break through. So my I just like to be careful with the term logic because I wanna make sure I’d be open because people can start flying tomorrow. It actually wouldn’t surprise me at all if somebody literally just started levitating and flying, because it wouldn’t surprise me at all either, right? No,

Josh 56:24
But but there are laws of the universe or laws of logic that are unchanging throughout time. And even if we look at the very, very core existence of that, in what we know now, and I have to look at what we know now, right, based on everything I do, I mean, I love quantum physics, and I believe in quantum physics and understand that stuff is sitting. But the idea and the fact that we are living in the construct of time is something that has not been disproven. Now. The fact that time maybe this figment of our reality.

This stuff has already happened. And that you know, time is, is kind of a myth may be true. But the construct upon which we’re living in is a construct of time. Right? I the time, we can have a whole nother podcast sometime. And so let’s just disagree with that because time is something I don’t even think humans, we don’t even understand it all and we don’t, because they’re saying and I agree with what we’re living within it right, and that is 100%. So so we look at that and we go, okay, based on what we know, we know that in order for something to exist, there must be a creator to it. It had to be created from somewhere in the logical understanding of our of our mind what we know now, something can’t just exist, it needs to be created in the understanding of our minds, and we know that there had to be a starting point of time, there had to be an origin of existence. So we go all the way back, and we say that came from somewhere. There’s an intelligent creator there. So now that we’ve defined that there is indeed an origin and that in

Origin came from some form of intelligent creator, which I know, we’re not going to go down the people that don’t believe in like they’re atheists or things like that, because you and I both agree that there is something intelligent out there. So let’s just assume that we’ve come to that. So we’ve answered the question that there is an origin. So now we say, I mean that there is a creator, that that put us into existence, and that’s where origin came from. So now we need to ask the question that says, Okay, if you and I both agree, and I’m and now I’m curious about your thoughts on this, okay, if you and I both agree that we were created by a intelligent creator of some sort.

And we know that the creator of a thing is the one that gives it meaning and decides its purpose and decides the destiny of it or whatnot, would not we go and say, all right, then, God, source whatever we’re calling this thing is the one that ultimately determines morality. Perfect.

Meaning and destiny isn’t wouldn’t not that intelligent source be the person that decides that? Or do you disagree?

Nik 59:07
I think I think that it’s the connection to whatever that that creators I do think we are just to be clear, I think we’re making some big leaps to say that there has to like I understand what you’re saying in regards to the creation of the origin and that type of stuff. But again, I and I’m fine fine with that for the purposes of discussion but again, it’s I believe, it’s one of those things it’s so far outside of our realm of understanding that for which you are I’m sorry, I’m about just like that the fact that had to be like one specific thing that created right I do think there is an intelligence to the universe now whether it’s gone on for infinite things of that nature like that I haven’t

it’s that’s a whole nother you know, type conversation. So I’m with you. I’m with you on that. So okay, let me take it back. I agree with you on that type of stuff. But when it comes to the intelligence of the creation, what why does it I don’t agree that sort of that has to choose morality and things of that nature. I think that’s up for humans to decide and us for living this little bubble based on you know, the information that we take in

And the only way of it is because for the last thousands of years our complete view our views on morality and things that have shifted massively, you know, they shift all the time, you know, and I don’t think that there’s one piece of, you know, creator or this kid instance because a lot of morality discussions come from, you know, the 10 commandments and things of that nature right that’s where a lot of start starting of it is. And now I agree with the commands are pretty sharp stuff, right? Like I think that humans still would evolve in a figure to things on their own just like even up to this day, we’re starting to continue to learn more and more about you know, right wrong and what we define those us

Josh 1:00:37
Okay, so, let me ask you this, do you believe that there is inherent value in human life? What do you mean, like is, is the existence of human intelligence and human life, fundamentally special more so than the life of an animal or a rock or a plant or a tree is human life

Special or inherently valuable over nature over the universe? Or the other living sources that we’re aware of.

is there is there any I think that no

Nik 1:01:13
I think what you’re getting at here in this is a man created himself in his own image type of conversation. I think we might be going down. I don’t think I think that yes, we’re unique and that we’re the only species we know of right now that has consciousness that we know of, and that’s the key word that we’re have right? Because I think there’s tremendously you know, if you had to ask me gun to my head those things are way more intelligent life forms and things of that nature outside of you know, this earth this little microcosm of a much bigger you know, individual so for me to say that I feel like we’re more special than you know, nature of things of that nature. Like, I don’t know that I avoid it. Now, the next question if you’re gonna ask me, what would you rather save a human life for you? No, no, no, that’s not that’s not what I was going out there. I was. I was, yeah, humans because of their connection to

It and things of that nature. But no, I don’t think that there’s anything inherently

Josh 1:02:05
overtly special about humans. If that makes sense. I get Are you getting what I’m saying? They’re like, I don’t want it again. It’s It depends, right? But like I got so the question I’m going down the kind of the route that I’m going down here is, if human life is valuable, if a human life is inherently like if I were to go out and kill a deer, and I had a legal thing or around doing that, nobody’s gonna freak out. Okay, you’re out your animal rights activists, whatever, but like, generally speaking, it’s fine, right? Like no big deal. But if I were to go out and kill a human in any format, the loss of a human life is a tragedy, right? Any any form of loss of human life is a tragedy. So because of that there is inherent value in human life. Right let’s stop right there, because you’re actually just pregnant but what I’m getting at what it is because there is an uprising right now, and this is what we’re This is me, me talking about how the views of evil

Nik 1:03:00
Good shifts over time and they evolve. And that’s why it’s you can’t make you know, this is exactly what it is because it shifts. Now there’s a growing movement of people who think that shooting a deer is evil. Now 1000 years ago was the only way you could fucking survive and eat and still to this day is you know, poor nutrition, nutrients, and you and I believe that, but in their eyes, it’s evil. Now what happens if 200 years from now that that thought process continues to evolve, more and more people reach that conclusion, based on the conditioning that they’re being around, whether that be via school media, where they grow up, then all of a sudden, the definition of Good and Evil has shifted over a 200 year period? I’m just throwing numbers out there, which means good and evil is a fluid discussion, because it wasn’t evil, you know, thousand years ago, now it’s even it’s starting to become evil. Right? And two nights ago, it should be fine. And then they said, well, that because of that feeling, because x most people don’t believe that killing a deer is bad, it means that the human life is more valuable. So what if that starts to shift over the next hundred years? And then what do you say, you know, what do you say to the people who actually believe it is bad, but that is that is a truth.

Josh 1:04:00
That is a reality or an observation or a belief that is able to change. And that’s fine. But I’m saying I believe that they’re changing truths of the universe. Because there if there were not unchanging truths of the universe, then what Hitler did was totally fine.

It wasn’t fine, but that’s right. But But and I’m not saying that you’re saying that but I’m what I’m saying is is like, in Hitler’s eyes, what Hitler was doing was totally, totally a good thing to Hitler did what he was believed to be good in the world, and what I believe to be good in the world when you believe that the world is fundamentally radically opposite of what Hitler was doing. And so what I’m saying is there must apps there must be something that defines what good is and if there is not, then we can’t be mad at Hitler for living out his own. And I’m not by no way please. I’m in no way inferring that Nik thinks that Hitler what Hitler did was totally fine or justified, but what I’m saying is the last

logic behind that or the process behind that says, Well, okay, if and I guess I’m just curious to know your thoughts on like, you say, like, Hey, we want to level up, we want to have consciousness consciousness is good, or we’re going towards the greater good of mankind, the greater you know, the goodness of us all, like, that’s gotta be defined somewhere. It can’t be defined uniquely, individually by each individual person, and, or even by the collective good of society, because there’s been, like, there’s conscious upon which we live in. And I’m where I struggle with. And I’m really curious to know your thoughts on what like, I guess let me ask you this. And this is an open ended question. I have no idea. I’m not looking for an answer from you on this. This is me. I’m curious what your thoughts are. If you and I both believe in intelligent creator, you believe in source I believe in god sake of conversation. I believe that God wants to have a personal relationship with us. And I believe that God created just that we’re all clear on where I believe that the four questions are. I believe that the God of the Bible is willing

When I created us, that’s where orangey end came from. I believe that our purpose on earth is to serve God and make Him known. Like, I believe that our entire purpose here on earth is to have a relationship with God, serve Him and make Him known to others because he’s the way the truth in life. I believe that I believe our destiny is to have eternal eternal destiny with him if we accept him, and that we have an internal separation from him, if we reject Him, whether that’s hell or not, I’m not going to get into but some form of eternal separation from God. I believe that is our destiny. And I believe morality, good and evil, bad and good is determined by God who put it into the universe. And I believe that God created the universe mankind earth for a specific purpose to make Him known and glorify Him. So that’s what I believe. I’m curious to know what you believe. The intelligent creator created the earth and reality for and if that intelligent creator has

laws that he wishes us to follow or do a purpose or a meaning of why we’re here.

Nik 1:07:05
Okay, yeah, so couple a lot lot to unpack there. One thing I want to mention back to the good versus evil standpoint, what he said about Hitler, and is as bad as this, you know, sounds again, it depends on the context of the situation because there’s still people in Germany and so you want to eliminate the Jews. It’s the most disgusting vile thing of all time, but it’s really not that different. We’re talking about with the with killing a deer other than the view of it right and it but by not that different again, I know I’ve said this like six times, guys, I don’t advocate this stuff. But what I’m talking about here is how humans formed opinions. We need to understand that we’re creating these opinions on the fly based on the social conditioning the stories we tell ourselves that’s my that’s where I’m coming from with this. And the same thing comes with good and evil because it this is almost like the influence versus manipulation, you know, conversation, right? Because some people say influence versus relation well manipulation is when you manipulate someone it’s not good for them influences you know, can be good for them. Blah, blah. It’s like well, who’s in the final

what’s good and what’s bad for the individual? Right? There’s people who are in Colts who might truly believe and drink their own kool aid that think they’re gonna be better. You know, there’s that or it’s going to help other people, but it’s not actually going to help them.

So no, I don’t think you can have a definition of good and evil. I think it rotates it It changed. I have what I believe it is and will do, I will live by what my best thing is, my best thing is I want to raise everybody up. All I care about my literally entire mission and purpose in life is to raise many people up and make the world a happier place. I’ve been asking myself the last decade, you know, why is everyone so upset, who we mad at what’s going on? Everyone needs to calm down. We need to be able to live like it’s literally my passion. It’s like what my company is about right? Is all those things. So when it comes to the Creator, the origin, you know, that type of stuff.

Before I answer your question, one thing I want to ask though, because he’s still Why would I convince you that you’re convinced so when you say that the Creator, right, because there’s different ways I’m not ready to have an absolute regards to how the universe was created or any of that type of stuff, but I think there’s elegance to it. Absolutely. Now, do you live in the Adam and Eve story and do you believe in

That’s how humans came here. Right? Let’s talk about the origin of humans. So that’s what I meant by that story of origin.

Josh 1:09:07
Do I believe that God created Adam and then God,

Nik 1:09:10
The Adam and Eve story in regards to how humans were created? No, it’s created and humans were put here was one of the seven days you you believe the full set the seven days of the entire, you know, creations that subscribe. I believe that God created the earth in seven days, I also am open to the opportunity or the possibility that those seven days were not several, seven literal days. Okay, but every seven phases, but the humans win here. So you’re not necessarily buy into and I just want to make sure how it works or a comfort to evolution or about the monkeys or different types of primates, or the different things are us killing each other off over time and evolving into the species that we are today.

Josh 1:09:48
I don’t believe that humans came from monkeys. But I do I believe that God inherently created man Yes, that that came from God and that God

Placed man on this earth. That being said, there was a lot of phases before, there’s a lot of days before God created man. Right? So when it says in the beginning, you know, God created the heavens in the earth, I am open to the possibility. I’m not saying I believe this, but I’m open to the possibility that God created the heavens in the earth over the course of 6 billion years. Right. And that 6 billion years was equal to day one. And on the end that that’s phase one done deal. I’m not saying I believe that, but I’m open to the possibility that is the case. So maybe could man have looked a little bit different in the very beginning than it is now as opposed so but I don’t think they evolved out of another animal into humankind.

Nik 1:10:39
Gotcha. And I think the question before that I want to answer a quick question was, you know, what do I believe is like, you know, the purpose and the mission and what humans are doing here? That was a question right? Yeah. What’s the meaning like, what if you believe an intelligent creator created us there was an origin what is our meaning? purpose here? Like what was the meaning behind him creating it? What was he trying to do? He or she

Josh 1:11:00
Uh, where’s the destiny? Like, what’s your ultimate destiny? Where do we go after we die? What’s that? And I’m not saying specifically but like, what generalized term? And does does morality Good and Evil come from that intelligence source?

Nik 1:11:13
Yeah. So I think that again, the good and evil will start down comes from the context of the belief inside the individual the situation, I think there’s certain things that will increase or decrease, you know, the vibrational levels and that type of stuff to a little bit I don’t want to go too far down that route. But I do think that is a lot very contextual and belief patterns inside that when it comes to the reason and purpose for being here. It’s a phenomenal question. I have my reasonably for it. But here’s the thing, I don’t necessarily This is what everyone’s necessarily can come for. And I don’t have an absolute for it, because you’ve got a very defined absolute truth. I want to challenge on that a second. But like, I believe this is my personal belief. I think that we’re here in order to like we talked about earlier, grow, provide for grow, bring value to others and continue to provide fulfillment and contribute to the society and and

Josh 1:11:57
who determines that? Who determines that that’s why

You’re here.

Nik 1:12:01
Me.

Josh 1:12:01
So you’re you’re saying your purpose on this earth

is determined by you?

Nik 1:12:09
Well, it’s determined by my connection with the conscious my connection with with the Intelligent Design type situation, right? So whatever it is, whatever is going on inside, does that make sense? Like I believe that there is a level in there certain people are further less connected to, you know, a universal creator, whatever you want to call it. And I think that that can actually have an impact on how you feel and all that type of stuff like if you believe in the universe, and you truly think it’s a good like Albert Einstein said it beautifully when he said the most important decision you can ever make is university to be a friendly or hostile place. Right? It all depends on how you decide to look at now and I agree with that. Yeah.

Josh 1:12:41
Really, really quickly, just like and maybe this is just a yes or no question. Maybe it’s not feel free to expound if you need to, but the astronauts fine. Do you believe that there is one underlying purpose or meaning behind the human race as a whole? At least one? No. You don’t believe that collectively as a whole

She human, like, at least one shirt, maybe like one or more reasons that mankind as a whole exist.

Like I believe that mankind as a whole exists to bring glory and honor to God. And yeah.

Nik 1:13:16
When you put it like that, then my answer is, I’m not sure. Okay.

I really I’m really not sure I’m not prepared. Here’s one of the big things like I’m not prepared to make big absolute decisions and that’s fine. In a universe where we understand so little that’s my goal. You know, I think Jordan Jordan Peterson says beautifully, and I love Jordan Peterson earlier separately, but he was like, dude, all humans are trying to do is just trying not to be visually for they die. And I think that’s part of where this conversation is finding people to come in. And so when it comes to like, what’s the what’s the reason for humanity? I do think that you can find I actually find purpose in many, many different things. And you see this based on the fulfillment other human beings. So I think that that purpose can be lots and lots of different stuff. I know what our purpose

Sorry. And our purpose is different than our meaning our purpose here on this earth is like are I believe in individual purpose? I believe that my individual purpose is to, you know, spread the message of thinking different and help people understand why they believe what they believe, but I believe meaning is, but yeah, but and human kind. Okay, gotcha. So I mean, purpose when it comes to a human time purpose. I don’t have an answer for yesterday, I certainly I don’t believe, for one reason to, and this is where I want to ask you a question. Yeah. Let me let me let me show you.

Josh 1:14:32
Sorry, change gears all you want. Just let me just say this really quick. And then we can move on. I would challenge you to think about the question of whether or not mankind as a whole has a meaning for being here. But that’s all I want to say. I would challenge you to think about, I mean, I guess to an extent, but we don’t have to go down that route. I’m just saying, think about it. That’s fine. I’ve thought about it. Here’s what I think it would be and that’s that it actually knows. Yeah, they’re there. I believe in the individual purposes, and I believe in

Nik 1:15:00
Everyone been happy and groaning awesome. So what I had a question for you. Yes. What do you think the odds would be? If you were born in let’s say, Iraq or Iran, Iran, that you would believe what you believe right now?

Josh 1:15:15
Very, very slim. Like, and then tonight yeah. Okay. And that’s and that’s fair now because of that.

Nik 1:15:24
And you say, and maybe I might be able to answer so so what about those individuals and I’m sure you get a lot you know, it’s a question of the world but it’s, it’s always interested me. So what about the visuals and I know that I grew up in Nakuru, I look for years in new Tom, I’m very familiar with spreading the message, you know, all that type of stuff. Now, in order to go after people who are to go and form people that might not know about it. Sure. So what about that, you know, how do you feel about that? And, you know,

how do you

when you look at the fact that so we can agree that your ZIP codes into the tournament?

Net with, like, 95% likelihood and I don’t say you can’t be reformed or whatever I think there is there’s absolutely

about 95% likelihood that it’s gonna affect your beliefs.

You know? Yeah, no, no, no, I turn those in.

Josh 1:16:12
So, okay, so I am not under the belief that like, there are certain people, especially Christians that believe that people just know inherent right and wrong inside of them. Right. But you know, whether it’s right or wrong, I am not under that belief because of because of social conditioning. Right? And maybe we can make that assumption in America. Okay, great. But like the social conditioning of someone that grew up under Hitler, or in the Middle East under extreme terrorist Islam or things like that, like a seven year old, 12 year old, even 25 year old kid who grew up his entire life saying that his entire, like being drilled into his head social conditioning, that that, you know, killing Christians, killing Americans is a good thing. All right. We fundamentally disagree on

So I don’t believe that people have an inherent knowing of what is right and wrong inside of them. As a general rule, I mean, I think a lot of people do, but not everybody. So I don’t think that’s a universal truth of it. This is where the question of and go. So going back to truth, I believe that there’s four questions that you need to do at least four questions. But these four questions of entering truth, we need to know, define evil, we need to define what love is, we need to find what justice is, and we need to find what forgiveness is, again, in this particular context of what you’re asking, we need to look at justice. Okay. So in order for there to be justice, if you and I were sitting in a courtroom, right, and there was a kid, and this kid had no idea how to use a super, super basic example here, and I’m going to draw a parallel analogy here, okay. If this kid grew up, and his mom was like, Hey, listen, how we go and get food is we go get it, go to the store, we get it. We just walk out with it. We don’t pay for it, right? Like that’s just how we go and get food.

This seven year old kid or 10 year old kid or whatever was like, Okay, cool. I had no idea or no concept that that was stealing or that that was wrong based on society. Right? And he was caught, and you and I were to judge your jurors, we would look at him and go, Okay, well, this kid clearly had no concept whatsoever. So justice for that kid is radically different than a kid who knew, like me growing up, that stealing was wrong. Okay. How I’m going to judge or put down justice on them is a situational based justice based on the individual. Now, the fact that stealing is wrong or illegal does not change, right. But how we punish or how we judge or place justice on that situation is based on the individual. So I believe that there is a universal truth that says, you know, God is

God is real. The God of the Bible is, you know, the real God that there is absolute right there is absolute wrong. However, I also believe that God, for lack of a better term, punishes or puts justice down on people based on their own individual experiences. There’s a verse in the Bible, I’m sure you’ve heard of it, that it says with great knowledge comes great responsibility. And I believe that if I were to go do terrible, awful things, drop bombs to my chest and go and blow up people, I am going to be judged because I know that that is wrong because of what God has told me and because of my relationship with God. However, if a seven year old kid over in the Middle East straps about or even a 15 year old kid, 18 year old kid straps a bomb onto their chat and goes and blow someone up. Do I believe fundamentally that that is evil? Absolutely. Do I believe fundamentally that that person is going to hell not necessarily because justice

Different than good and evil, how we go and do that. And I believe that only God determines true justice. When it comes to the question of human life and morality, like I can, we can punish people accordingly. And we can have laws that you know, govern society for order. But when it comes to the matter of eternal justice, eternal, right and wrong, I believe that God is the only one that ultimately determines that justice. Does that make sense?

Nik 1:20:23
Sure. Yeah. And I’m guys today eternal justice there because of the eternal justice. Sorry, is it Yeah, lot fucked up something. Right? Um, it does. But when it comes to the fact that you have 5%, so you’re saying that 95% of the people that are born there just because of their zip code, that they are not gonna be able to experience what you believe you’ll experience in the afterlife, based on where they’re born? Like, I mean, so what I’m getting at here is no, no, no. Does that not prove that the social conditioning is literally everything because based on where you’re born is going to lead to the beliefs you have specifically religious

Not only just that the clothes you wear, the cars that you drive, are there is that not believe that it’s all come back down to social conditioning at the end of the day.

Josh 1:21:07
So and I’m glad you brought this up. So

once again, I’m going to just go back to the Justice thing, okay?

I believe that God gives everyone the chance to accept him.

And maybe that’s not on this earth. Maybe there is some other thing to do that. But if you are presented

with Christianity with the Bible that I believe it like I don’t, and just to clarify.

I believe that God is love that God is based out of love.

And that based out of like, God comes from place of love, because God is love. I believe God is an overwhelmingly loving God and that God at the very core of who he is, wants a relationship with you. That is why He sent His Son to die. I believe that God Christ came down and I believe that he died

In the cross versus I, like I believe in that. And so because of that, I believe that God, let’s just say 60% of the earth. And I don’t think it’s that much, but let’s just

that’s unfair. But let’s just say 60% of the earth, that never heard about God had no conscious or way to truly understand because of social conditioning has gone in and been shaped in a way. And they were never told about God or anything like that, that somewhere between the time that they are their destiny or forever Eternity is determined that they will have the ability to accept that God is the real God. But some of us are given that choice here on Earth. Maybe some of us are given it afterwards. But I do not believe that God damn someone to hell or to eternal separation from him, based on the zip code that they wre born in, I believe that the reality and on earth is determined by that but I do not believe eternal destiny is determined by that interesting, but because of justice,

Nik 1:23:03
I think that we we came to this last time on the on the last part as well. The way that I would define the intelligent design is love as well. And I think that’s the highest Yes. to, to to get to that loving aspect. There’s some really interesting books on that called levels of energy and power force. And there’s some other there’s some other ones that are really fascinating. They discussed that concept, and that’s something that really aligns. And then I’ve thought a lot about, I don’t want to say anything’s the gospel, because again, I this is where I struggle with and this is the whole meaning because one thing you mentioned here, you’re you made few stretches, you know, we just made a stretch saying that, you know, now we’re saying okay, well, depending the zip code that they’d have a chance here maybe they’ll have it the afterlife, but I believe in absolute truth. So like, I almost feel like it we’re saying absolute truth, but at the same time, we’re making stretches to try and get to that point, based on how you have interpreted and built the reality around you in order that

Josh 1:23:56
How did I’m curious, how did what I say or how did you determine

What I say contradict absolute truth?

Nik 1:24:03
Well, because now you’re saying, Well, if there’s an absolute truth that there is a God and all this type of stuff, then you’re saying, well, maybe it’s maybe it’s on the right, the exact same thing. But now you’re saying, well, maybe just because if they’re born, they’re never heard of the God of this earth, and maybe they’ll hear about it later. Right? Because what’s talked about the Bible and things of that is like, if you don’t believe in Christianity, you’re going to go to heaven.

Josh 1:24:22
Right? But in the Bible does say, Jesus the way the truth and life No man comes to the Father except through me. I mean, that’s Jesus Himself said that it basically like you’ll believe on me or you’re not getting to the Father. But I believe that I believe the only way to God is through Jesus Christ. Are you saying you think you can also reach us outside of the scourge or outside of the earth planet earth realm, for lack of a better term, for lack of a better term, I believe, I believe I want to believe based on my understanding of the Bible, based on my understanding of what I believe, I believe that God is a jealous God and that God is a loving God, and that God would not create people with their entire destiny just to be doing

to eternal separation from him want to believe, but it doesn’t know that that is I’m sorry that no, that is what I believe, based on what the Bible says, Now how that actually goes and looks in a physical format, whether it’s now in the afterlife or life before this in the last second that they die, you know, there’s this, you know, purgatory, or whatever it is right, like, but I believe that every person is given the chance to accept Christ in some format or another. They make a conscious choice to accept or reject him. Yes, I believe that.

Nik 1:25:32
Interesting. So why, why the Bible, the Christian Bible over the end, do you believe or do you believe all God when we’re talking to senior form of God, you know, there’s multiple, you know, religions that believe that what’s the differences and why the Christian one versus the others?

Josh 1:25:50
Great question. So yes, I do believe there is a singular God although I also, as of now, and I haven’t done enough studying on this to know I know, this is a key difference between Christianity and Mormonism is

Well, I believe in the Trinity as of now, but once again, I am not an expert in that space. The Trinity just basically says God is three in one God, the Father, God, the Son, God, the Holy Spirit, God is the most powerful, but they’re all equal at the same time. So it’s like this confusing thing. But for the sake of this conversation, I believe in a singular God, the God of the Bible. Okay. The reason that is, is First off, we need to look at the fact that all religions across the board are there are exclusive, right? So like, they all have some form of God, some form of higher power. I think it’s Buddhism that believes in many, many, many of them, right? Not, not as Buddhism.

Hinduism, Hindu, I’m sorry, yes, Hinduism, right. But there are in every religion, there are specific things that are specific and inclusive only to that religion, like Buddhism is not going to give up their things. Hinduism is not going to give up their things. Christianity is not going to give up their things. Islam is not gonna give up their things. Yes, there are a lot of similarities and a lot

of ways, but there are certain truth that differentiate each religion. Okay?

In every single religious format, there is a salvation of sorts. Would you agree with that? Right? Like, in order to be saved, you must not not as far as I’m aware in the in the Buddhist religion but again I’m not I wouldn’t say I’m the full blown expert. I’m

in the Buddhist religion though, philosophy than anything else. There’s extremists on that end as well. And there’s things like that, but it’s almost like stoicism, like his philosophy from the most part, I’m just a way of thinking way. Right, but your actions can determine your outcome in the future life.

Nik 1:27:47
Yes, your actions here on Earth. depends on where you gonna be. Yes, yeah. Right.

Josh 1:27:51
So I believe that Christianity So once again, I just want to go back to in order to define something to be true or not.

restatement about that thing. If it in order for it to be true, those statements cannot contradict one another. Right? I think we can agree on. I mean, that’s pretty widely accepted for anybody with every religion. If something if two statements contradict each other about the same thing that then they can’t be true, right? So we need to have congruency and coherency in the statements that we’re making about God in order for a religion to be true. And I believe that Christianity is the only religion out there that answers the question of origin. The answer is the question of meaning. That answers the question of destiny. And it answers the question of morality in a way that is coherent with all of them, and answers the question of salvation, because I believe that

Christianity is almost positive on this and I’ll have to go back and double check this but I’m quite sure

Christianity is the only religion or major religion, you know out there that we know of where salvation is not earned, it is a gift. God just gives it to us we as Christians, as people, we I believe that we don’t have to do anything in our own works or in ourselves in order to get salvation. We it is a gift that all we have to do is accept it. In other religions, it is a workspace or a cause based thing. And I believe, and I believe that between that, and between the fact that Christianity answers all these questions and complete coherency and based in logic that it best describes God up there. I think I could have done a better job of explaining that. But let me simplify.

There’s four questions here on Earth, evil, justice, glove,

forgiveness, origin, purpose, meaning,

Destiny, and good, bad morality. I think that Christianity answers all those questions and is the only

religion that answers all of those questions concurrently and coherently without contradicting each other in any way and also describes God. And I believe that there’s contradictions in every other religion.

Nik 1:30:09
And those four questions are what you determined are going to be what we know what these are the four questions I’m gonna base whether or not I believe something to be true in regards to religion.

Josh 1:30:17
Yes, because I believe that no matter what, you have to answer those four questions in order to chart because, like, what you have to know, we have to know where we came from.

Nik 1:30:26
Why?

Josh 1:30:27
Because if we cannot determine where we came from, or what created us, then we have no like, if religion if your religion does not answer the question of where we came from, and how is it going to answer the question of like that there’s a God, like every religion is saying, we came from Buddha Allah

doesn’t what probably shouldn’t be mixed into it because again, it’s a significant okay. Thoughts based religion, all religions go and have some place of origin, right? everybody’s like, yeah,

This is our God, or higher power for whatever sort, right? So they all go and they all claim that. So there’s the question of origin. We’ve got to answer that question. Okay, so where does it come from? So now let’s look at meaning What’s our meaning? So every religion is going to have some definition of our meaning. Every religion is going to have some definition or destiny of destiny and explanation of destiny and where we’re going, and every religion is going to have some form of explanation on good and evil, right, wrong morality, right. And I believe that there’s contradictions when you really look at everything in every other religion except for Christianity.

Nik 1:31:37
I mean, okay, so I get what you’re saying there, and that’s where you’re going with it. Now. What’s there’s a couple of couple more questions. I’ll ask with it. Absolutely. For sure. So, number one, if God defined evil and what’s right and what’s wrong, that it should be written in the book, right.

So do you agree with everything is written in the Bible? I don’t.

Josh 1:31:58
I default to believing that the Bible

true, but I’m not 100% convinced that it is without flaw. I believe it is at the very, very, very, very least God inspired. But I also understand that translation over the course of the last 234 thousand years is very hard to take everything in the Bible at face value or literally without understanding complete context. That’s I mean, at 100% there’s a lot of evil nastiness in there. But to answer your specific question, though, I believe that the Bible is the Word of God and that is how God is speaking to us in a book format. Yes.

Nik 1:32:31
Okay, because there’s definitely some some pretty aggressive terminology and things that go down in there that you know, even evil today.

You just you accepting it, you know, even though you might think it’s evil, you’re like, you know what, because of what God says is good, I’m good.

Josh 1:32:48
I believe there’s always context around everything that happened. And I think it’s really important that there’s an end You know, this the Old Testament versus the New Testament. So I believe that what took place before creases died in the cross is fundamentally different.

how we operate now, but I believe there’s explanation. Yeah,

Nik 1:33:02
the Old Testament is obviously we know it’s a lot darker than the New Testament. Yeah, there’s still some NASA’s in the New Testament, we maybe if we do another one, I can bring up specifics that ego. Yeah. My next question. Yeah. Be when it comes to when it comes to the, you know the Christian religion? And have you ever seen any of the similarities that it has with previous ancient Egyptian religions and things are passed down before it? And have you ever looked into that type of stuff like the god Horus and the sun god and how it relates and how all those things go around and how there’s like 12 disciples and I’ve got some stuff up here. Yeah, I actually went in there’s a whole documentary on this. Yeah.

Josh 1:33:42
And yeah, it was like a two hour long documentary and I I will not say in any way that I’m an expert on it, but I know what you’re referring to, and how the 12 or the 12 disciples and there’s the 12 you know, the 12 things and the sun got like, that’s called disease.

Nik 1:33:56
That’s one area is probably you’re talking about? Yeah, there’s lots. Yes is it is new it has it you know it’s born a virgin star nice adored by three kids teacher 12 this was it 3000 BC. Now there’s also a lot of, you know, similarities if you start feeling like Jesus was a Buddhist and things of that nature because there’s a lot of commonalities between those which is why I actually think a lot of the, the concepts and ideals that are written in Bible there’s several of them that they’re actually really good personal development stuff again, I truly believe there’s a lot of nastiness and evilness in there and yeah garlis of what was written in their people’s interpretations of it has led to unbelievable amounts of murder death and disgustingness which is also my is a major problem. But what were your thoughts about some of those things when you know there was so much similarities and things of that nature in regards to you know, previous history and things written thousands of years ago we don’t even know what’s fucking true today. So how can we know it’s true thousands of years ago, bro, like I mean, literally with the way the media is written. Can you imagine like waiting, humid like, think about the media we live in a time where

and this is almost like a cycle.

Everything is conditioning. But we live in a time where we are all connected, we can mean you can have a conversation just through video yet, we still don’t know what the facts are anywhere in the world, you imagine what things would have been like 500 years ago and the information that would have been left out the center and things of that nature. So how can we take a book like that and convince me how we can take a book like that at face value, when there is no I do agree it’s it’s last the test of time. It’s you’ve got to study it. And it’s, you know, it seems like we don’t even know it was true. today. How do we know it’s true? 2000 years ago?

Josh 1:35:32
Hundred percent. So I think history is important. And I think that I want to go back to specifically answering the question of like, Oh, you’ve got these 12 king or the three kings and they’re searching the 12 disciples and how that lined up.

If something happened, right, there was an event that happened, you’re going to have multiple different accounts of a story of what happened. So I think of it is like

me for that. So an event transpired

Were the Bible talks about three kings and a star in the east and everything like that. And the Egyptian religion talks about and it happened over in the east, you know it over in Egypt, right or in Bethlehem and over, you know, over in that part of the world. And so, like, they’re going to have accounts of what happened as well, like many people, many different cultures, many different types of religions and experience were experienced Jesus coming down to earth during that timeframe, or what we believe to be Jesus coming down to earth in that timeframe, right. So kings traveling and things happening, those things happen, and you’re going to get a different account from each person. But like

Nik 1:36:31
I said, according to this story, I’ve got it up here it was Horace was written 5000 years ago and Jesus was 2000. You know, one, or is born in the virgin eyes is Jesus born the Virgin Mary Horus birthday is December 25. Jesus celebrated December 25, or as Eastern led three wise men to him to wish he was born. Jesus of norstar LED led Wiseman and when he was born, taken Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhoon Jesus taken to Egypt to blah blah todman temple to try to tie the temple child had 12 disciples had 12 disciples in one room.

Thousands and thousands of years before now, I’m just posing a question. Yes, you’re, I don’t know what the truth is hundred percent. I’m just saying this is more of a rejected thing. And this is going back to the really the initial conversation where I hesitate and I get very hesitant to to see is absolute like everything is black and white, no wording and especially as something as important as what we’re discussing here. Absolutely. So once again, I want to go back to that though.

Josh 1:37:28
I believe, if you look at the Bible, and you really go back and look at history, and you look at the timeframes of what happened, and you look at all the prophecies that are in the Old Testament, and by the way, most of the things that you just mentioned there and I don’t know if it’s all of them, I’d have to go and look, but most of the things that you just mentioned there were prophecies in the Old Testament of the Bible that were going to happen in the future that Christ came and fulfilled. Like it was prophesized that Christ was going to be born of a virgin it was prophesized that he was going to like common like, do these

Things until like a lot of these things were prophecies beforehand. So if you go and look at the Bible, the Bible when you look at the original context, not the American Standard Version of the King James Version or anything else like that, but you look at the original text, the original scrolls, I believe that the Bible is the most complete book that lines up with what actually happened in history. And so you can have different accounts of the same story, just like if we were, you know, going through analogy of football, right? Like when you have you have the Tom Brady and the Patriots and you have Peyton Manning and the Colts and you have you know, Drew Brees in the saints, and during the Pro Bowl, they take their best players or whatever, right? And you go and you can be like, Well guess what, Tom Brady and random Are you know, Tom Brady and reggie wayne are on the same team? No, they were they’re like yes, like in that particular context like that did happen. Right. But like Tom Brady and and you know, Reggie went around in the same team that is your account based on this particular story. So there’s different pieces and different people are going to have different analogies of things that happen in history because they happened in history, but I believe that every story

In the Bible, there’s probably 20 or 30 other books that explain that exact same story. But no other book accurately represents history as a whole as what the Bible did I believe that now, do I have massive amounts of proof to back that up? No, because I haven’t gotten that far in my journey yet. But from the people that I have listened to in the evidence and arguments that I have been presented at 26 years old, this is where I believe so the reason I believe the Bible to be true, is because as of right now, it is the most accurate book in the context of history. First, secondly, because I think it does the best job of answering the questions that I’ve already proposed to you. Second, and then third, that following the guidelines of Christianity and the principles that are pointed out in the Bible. If I were to go and look at every successful person, and I were to go look at every person that we deem is really, really good. Or you know, this and I took all these different people, and I looked at what was good about them, what made them successful, what made them kind what made them happy, what made them this even if it was you

could point back to verses or principles in the Bible that said, that is a biblical principle. Now, you might not be doing it because it’s a biblical principle, the success of an evil terrible. I mean, like, we think that Steve Jobs at least kind of socially accepted, he was kind of an evil, right? He was a jerk. He wasn’t a great human, right. He was a slave driver, basically. But the principles that made him successful were also principles found in the Bible about hard work and dedication and being skilled in his work. So that is why I believe the Bible specifically now, I want just to be very, very clear, and I know you know this, but for the listeners there, on a pretty regular basis, I’m trying to disprove the Bible. I would love for the Bible to be wrong. Why? Because then I could be like, all right, everything that I just know was shattered. And I can actually go and look at it from a different perspective now. But as of now, everything that I’ve looked at and I want to bring up the the verse that was the last podcast that you brought up, or maybe wasn’t a conversation we had, where you were like, the kingdom of heaven, was it in you, right? Like, what do you say to that verse? When you look at the context of verses, rather

Other than verses in and of themselves in the Bible, I believe that context always brings clarity. Interesting. Okay. And once again, I’m not trying to convince you this, this is just what I’m answering your question of

Nik 1:41:10
what I believe we’re just going back and forth. Yeah. Today I know you all we want is just a better, everyone to have a better better life and you know, based on how we defined it, but what you were just also saying there though, was that things can change and stories are told over time that you think is the most accurate collection of stories. You also at the same time admitted that everything can change as it goes through so the word things can be completely different now than they were thousands of years ago, which takes us back to the whole thing it’s very difficult to have absolute truth because you know, it’s its ups and downs.

Josh 1:41:39
But but but I disagree with because i don’t think i think the Bible, the Bible may explain or tell us about absolute truth. But the Bible, the Bible are absolute truth does not exist because of the Bible. Absolute Truth existed long before the Bible. Absolute Truth, I believe existed since the beginning of

existence of anything, right? And keep in mind, I am someone here that, actually. All right. I want to know your thoughts on this. I have a question for you now. All right. Did you have any other thoughts that you wanted to touch on this before?

Nik 1:42:14
Okay, we’ve really gone through a lot of a lot of stuff in there on that, because it’s, uh, yeah, man. Truth is, truth is relative. At the end of day, the more we have this conversation, because even even trying to reach there is an absolute truth, but we will never know what that is. I think that’s kind of been my conclusion with it. And so when we talk about those four pillars, even then we’re taking a leap of faith that those are even true. So those are relative truths compared to an absolute truth type situation.

Josh 1:42:40
Oh, you mean to answer this? Well, yeah, we’re not gonna go down that but yeah, buddy.

Nik 1:42:44
Yeah, they know it’s been it’s been awesome. What what questions you got I know I’ve asked you I’ve actually for us.

Josh 1:42:49
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So my question to you is actually something that I really, really struggle with when it comes to God and this all powerful figure that I’m struggling with. So

One of the things that I’ve said probably not enough on the podcast but certainly many many many times to people in real life and probably you as well is that

God is this mystical figure that we can’t actually understand. And so I am there are certain things and elements that we just have to accept by faith we will never know them until we die every religion will tell you that whether you’re Christian or non Christian or whatever, you atheists, you got to accept something by faith, right? So

I am accepting that God is all powerful all knowing all loving, it is love has a purpose has a destiny, all these different things for the

it looks like

Amazon packages, okay, okay. In like this, this reality that we live in, right? So I’m gonna call the reality that we live in the universe. Okay, so God created the universe. I believe God is outside of the universe that he created. All right. So I look at the universe that I created.

And inside the universe in the laws that we created are the laws of logic. And I know that with that we learn more and more but the laws of logic, the laws of morality, good and evil, the the fundamental absolutes that God gave us in this context, right, like, I believe that, but then there’s got outside of reality right now, in the Bible, which I believe to be true, right? It says, In the beginning, was God. God was there to the beginning. He is I am the beginning, I am the end. So before anything else ever existed, ever, here was God. I don’t understand that. I’m not gonna pretend to understand that. Here’s my question for you. And I’m curious how you would explain this. If God was the only thing that existed, which I believe, and God is all powerful, all knowing, all loving all these different things. Where did evil come from? Because the only thing that existed

that’s what it says.

Nik 1:44:59
Oh, youmean like before I’m saying or you’re not saying right now like, okay,

Josh 1:45:04
At the beginning of the existence of before, before anything was ever created. God was for the universe before space before time before anything God. Okay? So God creates this universe God creates this reality. And you know that there’s this big argument that always goes on why does God allow bad things to happen? The reason God allowed that to happen because in order for there to be good, there must be bad and God gives us a choice otherwise robots I get it. My thing is, is God was the one that created the world and universe that we are living in today, the laws upon which that govern our lives. God is the one that designed to that. So if evil if this universe came out of us, and there’s me if the universe came from God, God was the one that created it and evil exists in the universe, either a God is not all powerful.

Because God could have been created a different form of reality where the option wasn’t good or evil were bad things didn’t happen. God was

is the one that design that, right? And you can be like, Oh, well, God could only create an evil where it’s only good, where it’s only evil where it’s good and evil exist, and we only choose good or this one, like people have told me that, but I’m like, God is the one that put those limits and restrictions on. Because if you didn’t, then he’s not all powerful. And if he’s not all power, I mean, if he is all powerful, then he could have just destroyed evil. If he’s not all powerful, that’s fine, or evil needed to exist as well outside of God before anything else was existing. So I’m curious to for you. And my question to you is, you believe in an intelligent creator of some sort. Where do you think evil came from?

Nik 1:46:37
It’s great question. So it really comes down to and I want to make sure I can be

articulate this properly. But duality, so without evil without injustice without upsetness in the world, you would never actually be able to appreciate what is actually good or what is bad, right on in every aspect of life because without silence, we would never appreciate what noises

What happened? What’s the silence between the noise right? You know, you ever think about that, you know, lightness, darkness, everything is up and down. In order to appreciate the highest life, we need to be able to appreciate the lows of life. Now there’s a duality to it. Now, whether here’s where I think we might differ, you know, I don’t necessarily believe that there’s intelligent design that only did this for humans. I think that there’s another piece that we don’t actually understand and telogen part of it. And so why, why do we have to have this internal struggle between evil and

you know, good and evil, which again, based on our conversations, you know, I come from a list a lot of that is actually based on how you were conditioned to believe based on how you would grow up right, because we’ve already defined that depending on how you’re raised and what religion you believe in or what area you believe in whatever your definition of good can be different than somebody else’s. You can think you thinking you’re doing somebody a favor by or you think you’re doing the right thing by killing somebody, when in reality, other people think you’re doing a negative thing and that’s where you know, it’s a very contextual type situation, probably more of the duality of me

So that is the end and there’s Yang there’s ups and their downs and so the best way I can describe it is without knowing what it feels like to hurt or to struggle or to be upset you’ll never actually be able to appreciate the highest because if you think about those it I mean here’s this is kind of a hopefully you can connect and say when it when I say this example here, but like let’s take someone who was born into complete and utter riches right they’re just born and riches and never had to work a day in their life and how fucked up or majority of the a lot of those people right those that you see their bit astronomically higher to have, you know, drug overdoses things of that nature because they never appreciated what it was like when they didn’t have to work or they are when they had to work they had to struggle right so you have to go through the ups in order to feel that the highs in order to live now if you’re asking me why would it create allows to happen then that is bigger piece of the puzzle? I don’t understand but it does allow us to live the greatest joys in life come out of sorrows and tragedies because without sorrows and tradish we would never know it would actually be like, low so wouldn’t know what I’d actually like to feel high. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay.

So, and I agree with that 100%. And that is the argument that is, is given, like, why does evil exist in the world? Right?

Josh 1:49:10
I guess I asked this question and I’m realizing now that you don’t actually fundamentally necessarily believe this. My question initially was, where did evil come from? But then again, I believe in an all powerful all loving all knowing God that created everything where you as you don’t believe in that same type of figure that has, you don’t believe that the earth is God’s only or primary creation? That I don’t that guess that that I will say, I don’t believe that I okay. I think that that

Nik 1:49:45
Yeah, that’s a whole nother big conversation. But I think that that would be a very big stretch for us to for anyone to to believe when we start studying the galaxy and the stars in the universe and how far the universe goes to think that we are the only creation okay? A Conversation

Josh 1:50:00
Let me ask you this. And do you believe that Earth is

potentially the only creation that has humans in human like format on it? Or you do believe that there potentially is other planets with our humans on it as well? I definitely would be I would much more believe that than to say otherwise then to say otherwise, okay. Okay. Do you default to believing that they have to abide by the same laws of the universe and the laws of everything or that it could potentially be different?

Nik 1:50:32
I do. The laws of everything would be similar, assuming that there actually is laws and that we can agree on that side of thing, whether they, whether it whether consciousness would appear in the same format for them, in regards to me like exactly the same construction and they struggle internally with good versus evil and, you know, light versus dark and, you know, families that type of stuff that would be up for debate. But I do think that it would start if they had consciousness like we have conscious here in

Then which I’m more open to them saying know that yes, I think that it would be a very similar, you know, battle and struggle.

Josh 1:51:07
Okay. I want to, I want to touch on and go down the rabbit hole of social conditioning here and actually talk about a little bit and a little more detail as we wrap it up. But I have a question actually on meaning really quickly that I want to go back to and just ask you really quick cuz I’m curious what your thoughts on this. So you believe that meaning is, is found where it’s derived from the individual based on their collective experiences, okay, so it’s derived on the individual based on the collective experience, if someone were to come to you, and I’m not trying to, like, play that, like, you think everybody should just whatever, but like, if someone were to come to you and be like, Nik,

I got Dude, I don’t think I have any meaning or any purpose here. Like I don’t think my life has meaning like your life might have meaning all these other people’s life might have meaning, but I don’t feel like my life has meaning I’m gonna go take my own life. Like what like, what’s the logic to say maybe their life doesn’t have meaning? Like why does their life inherently have meaning?

Nik 1:52:01
Good question, why does it left nearly have meaning. So I guess we have to define exactly what meaning means.

Purpose do we mean meaning and happiness? Because that’s a question that’s a level of fulfillment and joy and happiness in my opinion,

Josh 1:52:15
right? But you would agree that that person

has some reason or meaning or purpose to stay alive right? Like you believe that they were created by whatever it was that created them this intelligent think that people just because

Nik 1:52:30
they think that just because they’re their clothes off and they think they should kill themselves or kill themselves so much, I think that you can open open up that inside of the human by changing their thought patterns.

Josh 1:52:41
Okay. So if, if each individual person has that meaning, and you’re set like I guess, how, how is is that meaning defined strictly through their relationship with the higher power is that is that how they find their meaning?

Nik 1:52:59
No, I think that me honestly, if you want to know exactly why I think what we’re humans get the furthest I can go. And this is something that I’m extremely confident in. You know, you look at most individuals and most people that humans gather meaning through fulfillment, you gather fulfillment through becoming a better person by becoming a better person. That’s a very subjective term as well. That means working towards a goal, whether that’s to become a better mother a better house, whatever that might be providing service and value for other individuals. And so that’s the easiest way in order to gain fulfillment and gain meaning inside of life. I think that and what thing what thing like

Josh 1:53:36
what gives those things meaning like doing those things, doing that goal, that sense of accomplishment? Does that meaning come from that higher power?

In regards like, the feelings inside no more like okay, you’re like, hey, why people people will find meaning in their work and my meaning and you know, these things like where does meaning come from is meaning does meaning come from that higher power

and again,

really curious what you think on this?

Nik 1:54:01
Well, I mean, in regards to the meaning it comes from the feelings and what we achieve and what our consciousness is bringing, and if you’re if we’re going to agree that, you know, consciousness is, is is lit, for lack of a better term by some sort of something that we don’t understand, then yes, I guess you could definitely draw that back to it. 100% Okay, because at the end of the day, if we think that you know, because, like, again, I think there is a little undertone that we don’t quite understand yet that is out there in regards to the source, right. And you know, like we talked about here so yes, I do think that I do could make every minute is derived from that.

Josh 1:54:37
Okay, so and and just I’m follow my train of thought here. This is a open question. I’m not trying to prove anything.

So if I want to make sure I understand what you’re saying correctly, were created by an intelligent person, meaning is or an intelligent thing. Meaning is derived somehow, some way we can tie that meaning back to

That higher purpose, whether it was, you know, the initial Spark, or like how has been determined from us, but like the meaning initially came from, what that higher source created and what that higher source did. And we find that meaning through a relationship or a connection of some sort with them, the experiences that we have with that higher purpose, is that correct?

Nik 1:55:20
I’m not quite to that level. I do think that there is connections to it that can be stronger, but I don’t think you even necessarily need to feel extremely spiritual in order to have a lot of meaning and fulfillment in life whatsoever. So there’s someone like myself, who might, you know, feel a connection to the universe and feel your blessing like everything is you know, life type thing. But I also I don’t believe that you need to have a need to think that in specific terms to have that fulfillment type situation. So I don’t think it needs to be like you know, you need to sit and pray or meditate or do some of the things that you know, I do in order to to build a connection to get meaning I think that you can actually not believe in anything and still derive meaning if you’re working on yourself growing, providing and fulfilling building life fulfillment.

Josh 1:56:03
Okay, let me ask you the question just slightly differently here. And then I do want to move on, but like, I want to just understand this from you. So I know where you’re coming from. Do you believe that the higher purpose source in this case wants us because you believe it’s intelligent, wants us to have meaning wants us to feel meaningful and like have meaning and purpose in their, like, when they designed it, it’s like, yep, I want these people to have a sense of meaning.

Nik 1:56:27
You know, I don’t necessarily think that it would it necessarily has to be like that. I do think that there are certain energy levels and there’s certainand fulfilling building life fulfillment. you know, fulfillment factors they would prefer but I don’t necessarily going to sit here and say, you know, what, there’s something out there that’s sitting there, you know, they need to feel a certain way. No, I think you’d like it.

Josh 1:56:43
So does that does that higher power? Here’s what I’m getting at. And like I’m trying to figure out like, let me first say this. I’m asking like, is the higher power saddened when we die? Or when we when we like take our own life, like if someone commits suicide because they felt like they have no meaning is that

Higher Power satins. The reason I’m asking this is because if, if that meaning is derived from the higher power, or that higher power gives us meaning or wants us to have meaning or sad when we have lack of meaning, because it’s intelligent, then wouldn’t or how, once again, not trying to trap you in words I’m trying to understand here, like, wouldn’t that higher power or meaning want to give us information? Or set us up for the highest level of success in that meaning search? And if so, if he’s like, Yeah, he or she is like, yeah, I want them to have meaning. I’m sad if they you know, kill themselves and die because they don’t feel like they have meaning. So therefore, I’m going to want to communicate them with him. I’m want to get I’m going to want to have them set up for success. However, that’s defined in the greatest way possible. Wouldn’t that be the case? Like doesn’t you follow my train of thought there would that be so when they want to communicate with us and give us the tools and and things because if that

be the case, wouldn’t there be like, wouldn’t that higher power communicate with us so that we know oh, this is my meaning. This is my purpose. This is the, oh, this is why we’re created, we’re not just here for meaning if the higher power would want that from us, when they communicate, he or she communicate that to us in a way that we could understand in some format, so that we go okay, this is actually why we’re here or I’m here a collective society as a whole is here to go and do whatever the meaning was derived from here, or do you not believe that that that exists? So to an extent Absolutely. I think that there’s a connection you know, that you can have it I mean, us the way you look at it, what’s what’s running our consciousness, what’s lighting, the flame that makes the consciousness run? If it’s not some sort of intelligent design or whatever, however, we want to describe it, right? They were they even come from, you know, and so and I do believe that you can get gain insights, you know, there’s intuition, there’s a lot of different things you can do by really opening up and connecting in surrendering to the universe and, you know, believe that type of stuff. So to an extent Yeah, I think I actually do agree with what you’re saying.

Nik 1:59:01
Now I don’t think that it’s seen there though is black and white because get you your i think that i think our biggest differences here is a lot more black and white about certain things and I’m much more afraid of putting absolute definitions on things because I know you’re saying because that’s actually I mean because like I said from from a fundamental place but I don’t a huge amount of differences between the way you see God the way I would see the universe in the stores and all that I’ve come to conclude on it I think that where we disagree is the the doctrine in some of the things are written in one book and one Bible and in that type of stuff in the religious and the human aspect of things. right because what you’re getting it as a Oh, I want to talk to God, he’s gonna speak to me and I’m gonna pray I’m gonna connect with him and he wants me to go out and give my life I mean, I I believe that if you trust in the universe and you believe in the universe is gonna take care of you for sure.

Josh 1:59:46
Okay, so and let me ask you the question of then destiny then do you believe that like, you are living a great life right now? You’re good vibes? you’re happier lifting people up. It’s amazing. Do you believe that if you turn around spent the rest of your life

Life is a complete loser went back to drugs, alcohol, Paul, I just was like a complete loser beat people up shot people in and out of jail like just a complete low life. Nobody. And then you died the end of your life. You’re like, everything and everyone right? You die? Do you believe that you’d go to the same place? In both scenarios? If you live the current path you’re on now versus that path?

I guess I’m just trying to figure out like it if there is more than one and this is genuine curiosity here of what you believe I’m fascinated by this, right? So it’s like, if, if what I do here on Earth determines the outcome of where I’m going to end up, as in heaven or hell or an afterlife or a different format or whatever that looks like if what I do here does that and the thing upon which determines that is God source universe, whatever it is, if they’re the one that asked me to determine that, wouldn’t they give us like guidelines and things like that in some form of absolute? That’s like

Like, hey, by the way, if you want to go here, you must do this. And even if that’s just as you got to be a good person, and here’s what good is, which I don’t believe that but let’s just hypothetically say, right, there’s got to be some form of absolute path or thing that says, okay, maybe there’s 50 paths to get to heaven, right? But in order to get to heaven, you might afterlife, right in order to get to good afterlife, positive afterlife, ideal situation afterlife, instead of going to non ideal afterlife. These are the absolutes and maybe there’s 50 variables, but there’s these core absolutes when like, do you believe in something like that or not?

Nik 2:01:35
I don’t necessarily think that what you do here is going to determine Napster after what happened the after Okay, okay. It’s a whole different conversation and I’ve actually opened to a lot of different ideas or whether that’s you know, reincarnation or whether that’s actually different levels. I’ve read books and proof of Heaven is actually really interesting book by an MD surgeon who died and yeah, whatever. I don’t know if you read that one. But there’s there’s quite a few books to that he actually came back and talks about things of that nature. But I’m

open to a lot of different barriers there. But no, I don’t think that there is a specific definition. And the reason why is because again, good evil is literally based on our conditioning. Yeah, for so let me really quickly recondition. Give me one second, right? Yeah, no, you’re good.

Josh 2:02:17
Yeah. So guys, when he’s checking that I, the ultimate thing that I’m just trying to understand here is, you know, going back to the four questions that we have that I believe you have to answer, which is, where’s our origin? where we come from? Who created us? What’s our meaning here? Right? Like, why are we put on this earth? What is our meaning and purpose here to what we’re supposed to accomplish? And then three, where do we end up? Right? So destiny? Like, do we end up in heaven? Or whatever the hell would have been a bad or good? Is that bad or good? And then morality, which is, is there a bad or good in there? And I believe we can answer those four questions. And everything else falls into place because we can point back to say, Okay, if this is good and bad, if this is our determining good and bad, that answers that question. We could say, Oh, that is good. That is bad. And then we can say purpose, we can say Well, I mean, I’m sorry destiny, we can answer that question.

And then we know that our actions here will affect our destiny or not depending upon what we believe as far as destiny is concerned. And then also obviously meaning and an origin we already covered. So that’s kind of more specifically what it is that I’m going for it and I’m trying to look at and actually, you know what, I can bring this camera back this way to me here. That’s ultimately what I’m trying to get out and understand. And I’m not trying to convince him of my way. He has asked me a lot of questions on that, on what I believe I’m not trying to convince him. I’m trying to present my side, but then also better understand where he’s coming from. Because it is fascinating to me, I’ve never really met anyone quite like Nik. And you know what he is and why he’s choosing to do certain things and live and a certain way. So it’s been pretty cool. So anyway, Nik is back. So we’re gonna bring him back on the camera here. So yeah, man, uh, what the what the have that conversation another time as far as the afterlife then I do want to touch on do you have a hard cut off here? No minutes. Okay. couple minutes. Okay. So I want to talk about social conditioning. I know this is something that you really, really wanted to touch on. I want to give you the time of day here because I do think it’s very, very relevant.

So what you’re saying, my counter reaction to social conditioning we already covered, which is the Justice thing, and that God is the God of justice and that God is going to give people equal opportunity to, to choose or deny him. But I do want to touch on the social conditioning, and turn that over to you to kind of explain your thoughts on how much that plays into who we become.

Nik 2:04:18
Absolutely. And we’ve been talking about it, you know, intermittently throughout this entire situation, right? Because my, my belief patterns are and it’s tough to to see otherwise, every single thing that you believe, do grow up, all that type of stuff

is defined by social conditioning in one way or another. Now, there’s certain there’s certain negative aspects that you can get out of life. Let’s say for example, someone grows up in a cold, they’re able to escape or whatever, but there are some who don’t, right. So I think that social conditioning drives a bigger portion of our lives than any of us can ever imagine. It’s the reason you’re wearing the hat. It’s a reason why you’ve got you know, an American flag in the background.

It’s reason why we do whatever we want, we can think that we have our own opinions and thoughts, but it’s all based on what we believe on in regards to other people. And I can give a whole ton of examples of that how easily people manipulate it. And we think we’re thinking logically, but we’re not thinking logically whatsoever. And we’ve talked about before, you know, when I said, if we’re, if I drop you anywhere in the world, in regards to zip code, there’s a 95% chance likelihood you’re going to grow up and have those beliefs, those patterns, that type of stuff, whether it’s religious, whether that’s monetary patterns, whether that’s, you know, all that type of stuff. And so the real big thing I want to bring up with it was is this this concept that we have an information, an information gap versus you know, knowledge income gap, or I’m sorry, information gap versus like an income gap and that type of stuff. So that’s really my big thing. We’ve talked a lot about it, I feel like throughout this thing’s when you go, I mean, depending what question you got that like Yeah, we do was decided by marketers, everything. marketers and before that it was the people who are closest to us and around us. I mean, we it can be brought up by burning witches. If

stake, it can be brought up by, you know, Nazi Germany, there’s I don’t know if you ever heard of the book called The wave, but it’s about a high school in Palo Alto that recreated the Nazi Germany experiments and I think the 60s or 70s, and it got where some of the students with teacher led it. And some of the students were, you know, like the SS, and some of them were the Jews, and we’re getting ran over. And it got to a point where the as the people who are operating as the Nazis, like we’re sort of beating the kids, like, you know, they’re beating these people because of the conditioning that went down over a couple months period of running an experiment. We see this all the time when it comes to experiments. So the conditioning that we have in my biggest thing for in regards to the listeners is just be aware of everything you do is a condition and if you have a humidity belief, something is rather topical true. Make sure you question it, you make sure you start looking at it because you and I both know, could we align a lot of ways politically, that conditioning can can really destroy individuals and people and they can think that they’re right you know, so I don’t know if where you want to take it.

Josh 2:07:03
But yeah, so I have a question for you on that, specifically because I 100% agree with you, especially as a marketer, people think they have free will to make their choices and decision making or whatever, but like me as a marketer, and you know, this, whatever you guys have, I want to sell something. The first question that I ask myself is who’s buying this? Right? Like, who’s art who is my most high likely chance of buying this? And I just run ads directly to you. And I mean, now it means down. I mean, I don’t know if you saw this or not

parse sell or whatnot. parseltongue. I can’t pronounce his last name. Trump’s campaign manager was at TEDx growth con, got up on stage, interviewed, I mean, Grant had some controversial people there he had Scooter Braun there yet Trump’s campaign manager there yet Floyd Mayweather, there is a big big hitters there. But onstage Trump’s campaign manager is like, we’re going to spend a billion dollars between now and the election on Facebook and YouTube ads. Wow, Bill. Yeah.

dollars. All right,

Nik 2:08:02
like 100 billion or something that the first round Yeah, what was that? So like, you think about it and Bloomberg already in three months has spent 500 million. Yeah. So okay, so like, Don’t worry, my favorite is looks like oh, I never clicked on an ad ads don’t work on

Josh 2:08:18
the first ad might not work, but the 72nd one, absolutely will. And so so I guess my, the thing that I want to talk about and bring up to you is what what are so I am very, very aware like I actually believe in a Ah,

how do I say this without contradicting everything that I just said and sounded like complete lunatic? Like

I know what people mean by the matrix. Okay. Now Now, from a religious standpoint, let’s not go there. But this this idea that it’s we’re all just kind of programmed

To do the same thing over and over and over again. And like, we really don’t have any control over x, like you look at the subconscious mind, you look at how beliefs are formed, you look at people, like 90% of us is just programmed. It’s our subconscious right over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. So how we act, how we think what we eat, what we were, who we hang out with how we talk, like everything is very, very, very much programmed by our surroundings in in true matrix format, right? And so there’s when you look at the money system in the financial system, especially in America, I mean, it’s very, very, very evident here, right? That what like we were created to this. So part of the goal of thing different theory is to get people to step out of it, to get people to question everything and to get people to be like, why do you actually believe what you believe? Why do you actually function the way that you function? The mission statement of things different theory is to help people understand why they believe what they believe, and give them the tools and resources to go out and live accordingly. All right, like that’s the fundamental thing of what it is that we’re trying to do here. So for the person out there that thinks a certain way that is so so fundamentally

Certain of like, this is what I believe to be true or like, this is how I’m gonna operate or do because of social conditioning. How can they and this is kind of more of a teaching moment, you know, how can they go out and start to

realize where it is that they’re being manipulated and realizing the ideas that they be fed actually try to go get to the source of things to make actual logical decisions, not based on that, like, how did you do that? What do you recommend people to do?

Nik 2:10:26
Yeah. Oh, boy, that’s a that’s a great question. There’s a lot that goes into that. Because I mean, I’ll even be the misfit or admit that, you know, there’s things that I’m conditioned to believe and do that I’m thinking about because there’s so much unconscious behavior, the biggest thing and this is one of my favorite quotes, so you know, from the Buddha’s question, everything question everything you hear, you know, why does it make sense? The worst answer ever is because we’ve always done it right. Right. And one of the big ways that people can can do this in regards to you know, breaking a certain belief pattern, who wants you first you have to question everything, you know, one of the so let me give you an example right now, you know,

example of how you can actually snap yourself out. And this is going to be similar to what you were just saying. But let’s say for example, if someone comes to me and says, You know what, we can’t grow the business by 100%, right? That’s a belief. That’s a condition, because and then the question is, why is well, no one else has ever done it, right? No, no or not? No, no, some people told me they couldn’t do it. They’re conditioned to believe they couldn’t do it. Because, you know, it’s hard to get the hundred percent growth. But the real question would be, here’s a three part process where you could actually start when you catch yourself, you know, in a situation

where you’ve got a negative belief pattern, or you don’t maybe I want to go down that route, actually, no, let’s do it. Here’s how you can catch yourself and you can catch other people as well. So if you start hearing other people say things that you know, they’re socially conditioned to believe. I want Let me think of a good example. The Hundred percent business one is the best example. Um, let’s see.

Josh 2:11:49
So,

okay, why are they going about that? I we don’t have time to go down this rabbit hole because we’ve been gone for two hours and 15 minutes.

This rabbit hole is fine, I don’t care, we can go down this rabbit hole for 15 more minutes. I mean, the point that I’m about to bring up, I just want to point this out. Don’t hate me for it. I just think it’s funny something to think about. One of the things that you said there that I’m laughing at and have to think about is accepting, like, accepting something just because everybody else said it’s true, is ridiculous, or the way everybody else thinks is ridiculous. That’s kind of how you came to the conclusion of like, what, like how we define truth. And that’s kind of ridiculous, right? Like everybody else thinks that is true. And that’s kind of ridiculous, just because that’s what we decide is right or wrong. So that’s ridiculous. So going back to earlier, like, what we decide what’s right and wrong based on the collective norms of society. And, like, isn’t that kind of like what you’re saying right now, though? Like, that’s kind of ridiculous to do. Right? Like, we shouldn’t do that there. There’s the collective norm of society is almost always wrong, right? Yes. So the collective normal society thinks that killing someone is wrong or is right, they’re probably wrong. You know what I mean? Like

How you determining truth? isn’t how you determined or I’m sorry, isn’t how you determine what’s right and wrong based on the collective whole society?

Nik 2:13:06
No, definitely not. That’s how most humans Oh, that’s how most humans

right? I don’t know, I don’t want to make a decision based on the collective whole of society. You’re, you’re acting in truth, the truth.

Really seven again.

So basically, let’s let’s, let’s basically here’s your three step pattern. If you notice someone who’s got a limiting belief pattern, you know that they are socially conditioned to believe something that may not be true, like, Oh, I can’t lose 20 pounds. I can’t achieve financial freedom. It’s impossible. I can’t get out of debt. Yeah, let’s just do that. Right.

The way that you can interrupt people’s patterns, you first have to break the internet by asking the question, right. Is this really true? Do you have all the information here that you can achieve financial freedom? Has anyone ever done it before? right because first you have to in order to break a belief pattern and brief social conditioning pattern right and get us a slightly different we talked about but this is something that’s really valuable and really, really good to be able to do is you need to first induce doubt right. That’s a good start.

bleep beliefs. Yeah, this person who’s doubting you can only way you can do that is by asking somebody a question. You can’t say no, of course you achieve financial freedom. I did it. And then they’re like, you’re right, and then you never get anywhere because it doesn’t mean. Right. Right. And so first you need to ask them that. And then the next question would be, now that you started to induce doubt, like, how does it make you feel? We believe that you can’t achieve financial freedom, you know, that type of stuff. And then like, oh, man, it’s terrible. It sucks, you know, I’m miserable. It’s like, well, what if that wasn’t the case? What if you didn’t have that thing? And you believe what XYZ was, right? And so if you go down this three questions, so basically induced out asking questions, do you have all the information? You know, what is this really true? And the next step is, well, what if you How does this How does this belief make you feel? How does it play pattern make you feel about certain situations? And then the third thing you want to do is, well, what if this pattern didn’t actually exist, then what would you go out and do and then from there, you can actually come up with a plan to grow and achieve financial freedom. So that’s a completely different detour that we’re talking about. But that’s a good way to believe it. That’s actually really good. If this certain thing that you believe wasn’t true, what would you go out to do different? Like what would you go do

Exactly and it’s that work well could you be able to do it? What kind of freedom would you have because we in place ourselves in these blocks and these freedoms, we look at things in black and white. So that’s a way even if you see yourself because sometimes we have limiting beliefs we know you know, it’s more powerful to do so the people that you need to be able to watch yourself for the limiting beliefs as well, which again, is kind of slightly different conversation. So the biggest thing you do is read a lot of question everything and not like just read the news, but I mean, like read different books, different ideas, different topics. And by that I mean being able to understand a litta lot of questionle bit about different sources like I think it’s important for people to understand certain things about science and certain things about biology and certain things about this and I’m not saying you want to be well-rounded and spread that but then also know that most people are wrong all the time. And this operates from that fact now there’s certain things like Yeah, when the fire is hot, we want to make sure we don’t hit in the fire but like what we don’t want to do is listen to our parents who tell us that when he grows up did grow on trees so treats at Fox this up forever and influx of our internal dialogue and the way we go about things, all type of stuff.

Right, oh, you can’t do this, oh, everyone needs to go get a job. This is what everyone’s doing. Right. So basically, if the collective majority believes it on a lot of things, they’re usually wrong. I know you brought the example about killing and Yes, we do. great Right, right. It’s not everything’s black and white. That’s more of morality, right and wrong. You’re talking about, like, what’s possible? Yeah. And then also, make sure you don’t get socially conditioned, like, question me, why am I wearing your shoes? Why do I Why do I want to drive this car? You know, whatever. You know, you and I know that the only reason anyone ever does anything is either race status or lower status, depending on what they want to do. And people might be like, why do you want lower status? It’s like, Well, yeah, the person doesn’t want to

Question everything. That’s the biggest.

Josh 2:16:41
Awesome, man. Okay, guys. We’re gonna wrap it up there. It’s been two hours and 20 minutes with you. We had a little hiccup there at the beginning, but it was good. Nik, too, is always such a blast to have a conversation with you. I have to do it again. I’m sure I learned a lot here. Dude. I learned a lot about what you believe. And I appreciate taking the time to come on here. Explain it.

Nik 2:16:58
Absolutely, man. I’m really thinking about those four pillars as well, you know, there’s there’s a lot we can go down and keep knocking with those. But I think that’s a really interesting questions to ask in regard to start to create the frame of reality that you want to live in. Regardless whether that’s a biblical purpose or not, those are four very powerful questions that people can use in order to search in, you know, really learn more about themselves as well.

Josh 2:17:19
Origin, meaning, Destiny, morality, and the reason is those four guys and I think it could be potentially more than those. But I think that all other questions come back to those four things. Where do we come from? Why are we here? Where are we go and what’s good and evil. And that’s interesting.

Nik 2:17:37
What you’re saying with your definitions of justice, forgiveness, love those types of situations. Fascinating talk, man. Always appreciate it. Yeah.

15 hours, but first, you have me I feel like

Josh 2:17:48
I feel like maybe and I will let the people decide. I feel like maybe we should start a podcast. Maybe like once a week or once a month. We just come on and we just talked about this just like totally separate and call it like

Don’t know God versus source haha

Nik 2:18:03
that would be a lot of fun man you let me know that if we could definitely keep going because I do want to keep digging deeper and I want to go study more and learn more and

Raise it up because I mean again we’re not at this to prove each other wrong we’re all just looking for we’re all just looking for a way to be happier more fulfill what’s right about the earth how we can contribute more and build more value man so it’s been a pleasure talking to you about appreciate it.

Josh 2:18:24
Absolutely guys this has been Nik Robbins on think different theory with Josh Forti As always, hustle, hustle, God bless Do not be afraid to think different because those of us who think different will be the ones that change the world. I love you all and I will see you on Friday 12 o’clock eastern time. I will see you then take it easy fam. Peace.

Outro 2:18:45
Yo, what’s up guys? You’ve been listening to The Think Different Theory with myself, Josh Forti, which I like to call, “A new paradigm of thinking”, and real quick, I got a question for you. Did you like this episode? If you did, I want to ask a huge favor. See, the biggest thing that helps this podcast grow, and that will spread this message of positivity and making the world a better place, is if you leave a review, a rating and subscribe to the podcast. What that does is, it basically tells the platforms that this is out on, that you like my stuff, and that I’m doing something right. So if you could take like three seconds out of your day and subscribe, leave a rating, and a review, I would be forever grateful for you. Also, I want to hear from you. I want to know your feedback, your ideas, and your questions for future episodes. So be sure to hit me up on Instagram in the DM @JoshForti or via email contact@ThinkDifferentTheory.com