Think Different Theory

Why Eating Vegetables Is Actually Bad For You? The Carnivore Diet – With Kurt Yazici


Could eating vegetables actually be BAD for you? In this episode, I sit down with Carnivore Diet specialist Kurt Yazici, and we talk about the Carnivore diet.


You may have heard about the Carnivore Diet on Joe Rogan’s podcast, or even seen him post about it on Instagram.

Basically, the diet consists of eating 100% meat, no fruits and vegetables, and drinking nothing but water.

In this episode, Kurt breaks down what the diet is, and why it is suppose to be so good for you, and I ask a lot of common questions around the diet.

Please Note: Josh Forti / Think Different Theory does NOT endorse the carnivore diet, and neither Josh or any of the staff at TDT have tried it. This is for educational purposes only. We strongly encourage you to do your own research.


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March 11, 2020


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Disclaimer: The Transcript Is Auto-Generated And May Contain Spelling And Grammar Errors

Josh 0:00
In this episode, I sit down with a carnivore diet specialist, and we talk about the raven craze around the carnivore diet. You may have seen Joe Rogan talk about this on his podcast or even post about it on his Instagram that he tried it. And it’s pretty controversial diet it’s definitely different than a lot of mainstream thought process or logic behind eating and it throws a lot of rocks at and talks about fruits and vegetables. And I just want to give a quick disclaimer that I don’t know anything about the diet. This is the first time that I’m really hearing about it. And I’m in no way endorsing this or saying that you should try it or that it works or doesn’t work. I am just learning about it. Just like you guys are so as you listen to this episode, there’s gonna be a lot of controversial opinions in here. Kurt does a really good job of explaining why things are the way they are, why he believes certain things why they do certain things, but once again, I’m not endorsing it or saying that this is factually true. I’m learning about it just like you are. So strap in. Do your research if you’re considering doing this, but it’s a fascinating episode. I think you’ll learn a lot.

Intro 0:58
You‌ ‌are‌ ‌now‌ ‌entering‌ ‌a‌ ‌new‌ ‌paradigm.‌ ‌So, ‌here’s‌ ‌my‌ ‌issue.‌ ‌I‌ ‌wanted‌ ‌to‌ ‌find‌ ‌the‌ ‌ answers‌ ‌to‌ ‌life’s‌ ‌biggest‌ ‌questions.‌ ‌Things‌ ‌like,‌ ‌how‌ ‌do‌ ‌I‌ ‌become‌ ‌happy‌ ‌and‌ ‌live‌ ‌with‌ ‌purpose?‌ ‌ How‌ ‌do‌ ‌I‌ ‌make‌ ‌more‌ ‌money‌ ‌doing‌ ‌what‌ ‌I‌ ‌love,‌ ‌and‌ ‌what‌ ‌does‌ ‌it‌ ‌mean‌ ‌to‌ ‌be‌ ‌truly‌ ‌successful‌ ‌in‌ ‌ all‌ ‌areas‌ ‌of‌ ‌life?‌ ‌My‌ ‌name‌ ‌is‌ ‌Josh‌ ‌Forti,‌ ‌@JoshForti‌ ‌on‌ Instagram,‌ ‌and‌ ‌I‌ ‌ask‌ ‌life’s‌ ‌biggest‌ ‌ questions‌ ‌and‌ ‌share‌ ‌the‌ ‌answers‌ ‌with‌ ‌you.‌ ‌My‌ ‌goal‌ ‌is‌ ‌to‌ ‌help‌ ‌you‌ ‌find‌ ‌purpose,‌ happiness,‌ ‌and‌ ‌ open‌ ‌your‌ ‌mind‌ ‌to‌ ‌new‌ realm of possibility ‌by‌ ‌helping‌ ‌you‌ ‌think‌ ‌differently‌ ‌about‌ ‌everything‌ ‌you‌ do,‌ ‌know,‌ ‌and‌ ‌understand.‌ ‌On‌ ‌this‌ ‌podcast,‌ ‌we‌ ‌think‌ ‌different,‌ ‌we‌ ‌dream‌ ‌bigger,‌ ‌and‌ ‌we‌ ‌live‌ ‌in‌ ‌a‌ ‌ world‌ ‌without‌ ‌limits.‌ ‌This‌ ‌is‌ ‌a‌ ‌new‌ ‌paradigm.‌ ‌Welcome‌ ‌to‌ ‌The‌ ‌Think‌ ‌Different‌ ‌Theory.

What’s up guys welcome back to another episode of Think Different Theory. My name is Josh Forti. And Happy Wednesday guys, it is a good day to be alive as always. We have another amazing super exciting special guests for you guys here today. And I actually guys I’m actually I know I say I’m excited for every guest but Guys, I just am okay. Like, literally, I get to interview cool people every single day for a living like, my life is amazing. I’m not gonna lie. It’s like my dream job, which everybody should go have their dream job. So I like I get excited to talk to all these people because I love interviewing people. I love learning, and we could share it with you guys. But my next guest specifically that we’re gonna be bringing on here is actually a diet guy. So he teaches all about different types of diets. We’re gonna talk about the carnivore diet. he’s friends with Natalie Hodson who we’ve had on the podcast before who’s absolutely awesome. And for me, someone that I mean, guys, as you know, like I’m getting a whole whole lot better at eating healthier. I really am but I’ve had to express my McDonald’s my chocolate milkshakes. I mean, I’m just telling you my cheeseburgers. It’s all terrible. I know. I know. But it’s, it’s where we’re going on it. So anyway, guys, real quick. I do want to remind you don’t forget, I’m less than a week away. Now. Traffic Secrets. March 17th. is on a Tuesday. This book drops for pre order. We got some amazing, amazing, cool bonuses. We’ve got bonuses from Natalie Hodson from Steve Larson from who else we got Ernie, looking at my board up here. Arnie gaskey, Brad Gibb, Marley. All sorts of really cool people have contributed really cool bonuses. So when you buy into the link, you not only get all my bonuses, you get all their bonuses. And that will be all on the page, the waitlist page and the page when it goes live. So, March 17. Tuesday, mark your calendars gonna be amazing. And we’re gonna have super, super tons of fun. And we have a really big announcement that I can’t tell you until Tuesday, and then we will announce that so it can be super fun too. Okay, guys, without further ado, I don’t want to keep our guests waiting any longer. We’re gonna bring him on right now. Kurt. How do you pronounce your last name dude?

Kurt 3:38

Josh 3:39
Kurt that whatever he just said right there, Kurt. Welcome to Think Different Theory man, I am so pumped to have you on.

Kurt 3:45
Thank you for having me on. It’s pleasure.

Josh 3:47
All right. So diet Man, What an interesting topic to get into let’s let’s start there. We’re gonna get into your backstory. We’re gonna get into who you are and who you serve and all that and you can drop all the goodness Dude, how did how do you decide like, I’m gonna go and learn about the carnivore diet? How does that come about?

Kurt 4:07
It’s, it’s, it’s an interesting story. Um, and I could talk a lot about it. But I will just tell you that I’ve been in the entrepreneur space for six years. And I had anxiety for a long time. And I realized about five, six years ago that the foods I was taking the things that I was consuming, made a huge impact on how I felt and how I could sort of operate day to day and diet seemed to be the biggest lever. And that became a realization, especially when I got to the carnivore diet about to about a year and a half, two years ago.

Josh 4:42
Okay, interesting. So when you say, all right, so when you say anxiety, I feel like I feel like we need to kind of talk about specifically what that all involves because I am. I’m pretty controversial person, and I am a huge believer that the body can heal itself. I believe that through your thought and belief, and then through what you put into your body, both physically with food and the output through exercise, and then the same thing with the mind that pretty much we don’t need modern medicine. I mean, modern medicine has this place. I’m not dissing modern medicine for the place where it is. But like, I really do believe in those things. And so when it comes to things like stress and anxiety and things like that, making controversial statements about like, anxiety is all in your head, and you can essentially cure yourself from it is something that I think a lot of people tend to like, Josh, you’ve never had any anxiety, which I have. And you know what I mean, like things like that. I do think that there are certain levels of it. So I think it’s important to define kind of where we’re coming from and what you specifically mean by anxiety and what we’re talking about here specifically.

Kurt 5:42
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so I had anxiety. So everyone experiences a level of anxiety throughout their day to day, you know, you go and approach a girl that you’re attracted to, you’re going to as a guy, if you’re single, you’re going to probably feel some anxiety from the social consequences of looking like an idiot, or just, you know, putting yourself out there being vulnerable. If you go and you have a big presentation or just being on a podcast like this, there’s a little bit of, of energy that comes in with that, that that you want to perform and show up, right. And so that’s a natural form of anxiety. The anxiety I’m talking about is the kind of anxiety where you wake up and you feel like you’re carrying a weight and you are kind of like afraid to kind of go about your day to day and it becomes a pattern that manifests. And I think we do have that sort of neuroplasticity in our minds that creates grooves of thought patterns that we end up sort of revisiting kind of, I think Tony Robbins talks about kind of like the habits become habitual and the thought patterns become sort of an emotional home that we live in and yesterday and that and, and unfortunately for a lot of people anxiety gets to a point where it’s embarrassing, because you’re like, Why do I feel this way? It’s very isolating. It’s very fear invoking and So, what I found was like when I left corporate world after being at Microsoft and Zillow, eight for eight, total years after college, and going off to become an entrepreneur, I just wasn’t prepared for my business growth in my businesses outgrew me as an individual. And I wasn’t emotionally ready for that. And so I had a business where I had 30 plus employees, and it just my mind and the way I was able to kind of like take things in, I just was overwhelmed and the way that I processed that was not healthy. And I started to sort of manifests in avoidance patterns, I would go out I would, you know, want to not go into the office as much I would go to the gym, which isn’t a bad thing, but there was a lot of things I did and so the anxiety ended up being this point where I was feeling anxious throughout my day, and I would wake up feeling anxious now I don’t do that. Now. I definitely feel stressed. I feel like I said natural forms of anxiety. From time to time, but it’s not this level of underlying kind of foundational. I just,

Josh 8:06
you know, it’s like your hands on math. Yeah. Yeah, like a, like a panic of like, Oh my gosh, like I’m just waiting for something to go wrong almost

Kurt 8:13
in mine manifested into a panic attack. I was sitting in my office, I was looking at the numbers, financially, we’re doing good. We didn’t know where our money was gonna come from. We had a lot of broken processes and things that were going on. And I was CEO and I was just like, ah, and then I just kind of like my heart started pounding. I was sweating. And the next thing I knew, I got lightheaded, I had to walk upstairs lay down and I walked myself over to a local urgent care. I talked about this in my book and, and it was basically a panic attack I gave myself and that kind of imprinted in my biology in my physical self, a feeling of trauma. Yeah. And it sort of anchored in this anxiety that then sort of continued to manifest because I had all these outside triggering moments that I didn’t know how to deal with I didn’t know anything about what was going on.

Josh 9:02
Yeah. And I think what’s super interesting is kind of going back to you’re talking about like Tony Robbins and habits and like things like that and how these things are formed like, we operate based on including going into a little bit of mindset stuff, guys, here. We operate based on the stories we tell ourselves, right? So like, whatever story that we’re going to continue to tell ourselves over and over and over again, subconsciously, that’s how we’re gonna operate out of and when you talk about how like habits are formed to kind of put us put ourselves into this state of anxiety. It’s when you read Have you ever read the book The Power of Habit?

Kurt 9:32
Oh, yeah. Which Charles is doing? Yeah,

Josh 9:35
Teah, yeah. So I’m good. So when a habit is formed, a habit is caused by a trigger, right? And then there’s this response that happens to that trigger. And then there’s this essentially emotional connection or emotional feeling that happens this, this hit of dopamine or whatever, at the end of it, so that you know, okay, this trigger happens, then this, I automatically go and do this thing. And then at the end of it, I’m going to have some type of reward. And it sounds crazy to say when it comes to anxiety, but your body, the anxiety is actually creating this hit that your brain is actually like craving, right? Because at the end of it, you get this reward of it. And it’s scientifically proven that the exact things that exact same thing as when you’re anxious and nervous is the same exact feeling in your brain is excitement, right? So it’s just how you perceive it’s the lens that you put on. So when you talk about waking up and having anxiety, I mean, I remember for me my low point, my crashing moment when it all came crumbling down for me. I was stressed and anxious from the moment I got up, I mean, I would wake up at three or four o’clock in the morning and an all out sweat and just like being like, freaked out about the fact that I’ve got all these client responsibilities and I can’t sleep and I can’t do like just my everyday function is like, I had to have something there. I was drinking, you know, 678 910 Dr. Peppers a day just shoving them down because I was like dealing with this. And it was because of the emotional triggers that were going off in my brain. I was writing this story that said, Hey, anytime I felt this way, go into this habit, then I was gonna get this hit. And that was this this loop of anxiety, right? And so that’s why I believe that you can reprogram and it sounds like you’re right there with that. It’s like, hey, if we could change what’s causing that we can change what goes on in the brain and we can change what goes on in our body. Essentially, you can change the outcome of anxiety that we’re kind of referring to here.

Kurt 11:22
Hundred percent, I think, when we look at the environment, right, it’s the triggers, like there’s a lot I read, I read a lot of books on anxiety, I went through a lot of counseling and just tried to understand it better and in a lot of its environmental and built into our nervous system, right? So it’s at the reptilian level of our brains, where we have something called neuro ception. our nervous system has a perception of our environment, and what’s triggering us anxiously, that is outside of our conscious awareness. And there’s authors that write about this. There’s a book called focusing by Eugene Gatlin, and he’s a he’s a he was a psychologist studied very Chicago and he talks about how those sensations that you’re explaining about feeling nervous or excited are very similar. But then the interpretation you make in your mammalian brain to define the emotion, which is a combination of the actual sensations coming from your reptilian brain is how you categorize it. So, you know, your excitement might come from your heart, just as anxiety comes from where your heart center is, but then the way you define it and what you label it, and then how you interpret that cognitively, completely sets the tone in a very different way for you.

Josh 12:34
I love that. I love that. Okay, so let’s let’s talk about this. And I want to kind of go back to your backstory here and how you got into this, and a little bit of what like what you do, because I think that’s important for people that have never heard of you and before this podcast, I mean, I had no idea who you were and I got introduced you through Natalie, who I trust, true tremendously, but like, talk to us about your backstory, why are you credible? Why should we listen to you and what ultimately got To this point,

Kurt 13:01
Yeah, it’s a good question. Um, so I just wrote a book on the carnivore diet. It’s launching in a week. So, um, I guess, am I credible? Am I not credible? I’ve been an entrepreneur for six years, our business has sold about 14 million in revenue in product over the last six years. So whether or not that makes me credible or not, I don’t know. I did work for Microsoft.

Josh 13:25
Sorry, what’s your business real quick.

Kurt 13:26
So my I’ve two companies, but the company that did has done the majority of our revenue is called crush for ties. And so you’re, we’re basically a company that focuses on affiliate marketing and we sell a bunch of products using Facebook ads. Okay. Um, I met Natalie through actually through influencer when I was down in San Diego last year, pretty much sharks conference, and she was a speaker there and then hired her as a coach. Um, as far as credibility. I mean, the carnivore diet is pretty new. It’s only been really a big mainstream thing for the last two and a half, three years and it really got Popular when Michaela Peterson and Jordan Peterson, we’re on the Joe Rogan experience. Yeah, so for most people, it’s hard to say, oh, why are you credible or you know, what makes you qualified to speak about it. And I’m not a doctor, I studied biology, I have a degree in biology and then I have a degree in engineering, but honestly, appealing to authority in today’s world is such, I think, is one of the worst. It’s one of the reasons we’re so sick as a population. We’ve constantly looked at people who’ve run studies and created the belief systems they have to teach us conventional wisdom, like high cholesterol is terrible when we’ve created these systems in the modern health system, health care system where doctors specialize. But the problem is that the doctor that looks at your heart and your cholesterol isn’t looking at your gut, and they’re so connected, and like if you change what you put in your gut, your cholesterol could easily go down, but the doctor that looks at your heart and doesn’t know about your gut and what you’re eating could give you a stat and in lower your cholesterol synthetically with a pharmaceutical, but it’s like No bro. I don’t have hypo cholesterol emia. I’m not genetically predisposition for high cholesterol, right just on a ketogenic diet and you’ve never seen one and you don’t know what you’re talking about. And so there’s there’s so much you can go into that

Josh 15:18
And i think i think this is an important distinction when it comes to health. So quick, quick side note backstory, just so you’re aware. I had a sister when she was five years old, I think. Maybe she was six. Anyway, she had seizures. She started having seizures like full out seizures. Like it got so bad it was every eight minutes right Oh, number one child epilepsy doctor in the world we took her to at the Cleveland Clinic through the grace of God like friend of a friend goes in diagnosis or looks at my parents goes I have no idea what’s wrong with your daughter, right? Like can’t can’t can’t solve the problem. And we’re like, great, like what do we do? My mom literally went and was like diet, the gut cures everything. I’m gonna you know, kind of go figure this out. finds the ketogenic diet and through meticulous way, and like just crazy, crazy amounts of everything goes and through diet alone and oils and coconut oil and things like that cures my sister of epilepsy, she has a no seizures anymore. And over the course the next several years, we are off that diet to where she’s a completely normal person again today. So like when when you talk about the gut, and when you talk about how like this all connected, like I am 100% a believer in that. And one of the things that I learned and notice I’m really curious, your thoughts on this is I’ve kind of seen like, doctors will look at the symptoms that you have. And rather than going and looking at what’s actually causing that and trying to solve it there, because of the society that we live in that there should be effects and I should be able to get back on my normal way. And because anything that takes longer than a pill or 30 seconds is not right or is going to interfere with my life. They go and they say here’s a pill that is going to solve the problem. As long as literally nothing else changes, right? But oh my gosh, all of a sudden, you eat more junk food and now not salt problem doesn’t solve anymore or you change your diet here and now that suddenly becomes very, very, very bad for you what they’ve prescribed for you. And so like I see them treating the symptoms rather than the root cause. Would you agree with that?

Kurt 17:18
Hundred percent? I mean, look at diabetes, what do we do for people, they’re insulin resistant, meaning that they’re not responding physiologically to insulin. So we pump them with more insulin, that is not solving the problem at the source the sources, you have too much metabolic dysfunction, your body can’t store in responding to insulin that’s already naturally at the levels in your body. You need to go on a fast you need to stop eating carbs, you need to stop eating sugar. And instead of that, we give them a prescription to pump up the insulin levels to obscene levels. And they get fatter, they get sicker. They they get more in it. So we’re not we’re not solving the problem. It’s 100% true and And we’re not knocking on doctors, right? Like they’ve they’ve been trained in such a traditional way. And I think they do want to help people genuinely for sure, but, but the thing is like, man, if you really choose that as a profession, you kind of owe yourself an obligation to constantly be learning in that space, because so much is changing. And we’re learning so much about how important it is to affect the gut, the actual root cause of disease. And fortunately, things from Cleveland Clinic like Mark Hyman and the functional medicine movement, yeah, started to sort of make it more mainstream to look at root cause disease, but, but it’s really fascinating to see things like the carnivore diet coming into mainstream and how much of an impact it’s having on people’s health because it’s really changing the game for a lot of people.

Josh 18:47
Yeah. And I think one of the problems and I’m glad you brought the point we’re not bashing doctors, because like doctors have their place right. And like you said, I genuinely do believe that doctors want to help people. I mean, that’s why they go into the profession, right? I think one of the issues for doctors, though, is like, there’s so much regulation now, you know, like they have to prescribe certain things.

Kurt 19:07
They want to do certain things. I mean, paid. I mean, think about it, like a clinic that does orthopedic surgery is going to make way more money. And they’re a business, they’re a for profit business, they’re going to make way more money, performing a surgery, or prescribing a quota of pharmaceuticals, and they are just sending the patient back and telling them to change their diet. Yeah. And it’s it’s an economic driver that unfortunately, we we haven’t figured out the economics of how to make this more influenced in the way that can help people long term I think, and that’s a that’s something where at the grassroots level, things like carnivore, ketogenic diet can really make that change.

Josh 19:50
Yeah, and, I mean, I don’t think we have time to go into the whole problem with the system and changing that or whatnot. But you know, if there is so much regulation, there is so much more If there is so much power, there is so much lobbyists. And quite frankly, if we were to go and you’re not just attacking pharmaceutical companies at this point, you’re also attacking Monsanto, who I’m sure like, you know what Monsanto is and the giant I grew up a farmer, right? So everything was Monsanto. And like Monsanto, we’re talking the food industry here. What do you think? I mean, the pharmaceutical companies have tons and tons of power, I don’t know which one technically has more. But right up there with them is Monsanto, who literally has, for those of you that don’t know like, Monsanto is a Seed Company more or less really a food company but like a seed company for our crops for for corn and things like that. They have police forces in house that drive around to farms and if I’m an organic farmer next to a farmer that does Monsanto, corn, and they spray their crops, and the wind carries that pollen over onto my organic stuff. I had no control over it. Monsanto can come and confiscate my farm and my crops because they own the patents and the rights to it and they’re just shutting down farms. And so you’re not only doing attacking the pharmaceutical companies now you’re attacking the food company. And you’ve got probably hundreds of billions of dollars at this point that you’re fighting. So I think there’s there is a huge dilemma there. So we’re focused on how the individual you and I can solve this problem, maybe not in a mainstream way. But at least for you and I, what we can do to start taking steps to eating healthier, to eating clean, and to go and solving these problems there. So right, moving this conversation towards that way, where specifically do you focus and weren’t talking about the carnivore diet here specifically? Who is the carnivore diet designed for? And like, what ultimate results are we getting if we follow the diet?

Kurt 21:36
So the carnivore diet is designed? In my opinion, it’s designed for someone who may and that’s a broad question. I will I will say that for an achiever, the carnivore diet is the optimal diet for you. And the reason I’ll say that is because I find that a lot of achievers are willing to make sacrifices in the carnivore diet is going to ask you to make a huge sacrifice in the variety of foods that you eat. The flip side of that is you are going to eliminate a lot of the toxicity in the inflammation in the autoimmune triggering molecules that come with the slew of plants in the premise here is, plants have been in an arms race with animals on this earth for hundreds of millions of years. As much as the superfood plant industry wants us to think that molecules like isocyanate, or Rosemary trawl or polyphenols are incredibly antioxidant and healthy for humans, they’re actually defense molecules that plants have created that actually hurt you. And if you look at the holistic image, not just zoom in on one picture of how they trigger our livers NRF two pathway and actually activate our glutathione production in our natural sort of xeno hormetic response to the actual molecule that is a pesticide the plant makes you then see Much bigger picture and you’re like, holy crap, this stuff actually causes inflammation. It penetrates my gut barrier, it actually goes in and triggers autoimmune inflammation at levels. And it’s designed to do that. It’s designed by the plant over hundreds of millions of years. Because the plant can’t run, it can’t shop at its predator, it can’t claw away. It literally is stuck there in the ground like a guy in a beach with his body buried in the sand, like, you literally have no escape mechanism. And so plants have developed these mechanisms. humans evolved from primates took us about 6 million years. But we think that we became the the humans we are that were able to have this conversation and create the computers and read and really evolve our brains to the capacity they are now is because of the nutrient dense animal foods that we started consuming back about five, 6 million years ago. And then we saw human brain size really explode. We saw our gut size shrink, we saw our gut acidity go to a higher level than most carnivores because we were scavenging the bone marrow in the brains of carcasses at our early stage evolution, and then we became taller, more erect. And we were, we were more of an apex predator where we could actually throw. So there’s a lot of evolution that we’re looking at in that respect in all kinds of nuance there. But, um, that’s kind of the whole idea there with the carnivore and why I think it’s so valuable is because we think, and I’m a pretty big believer in this theory or hypothesis that carnivores are it’s the ultimate diet for brain health. It’s, it’s by far the ultimate diet. You can’t get tha from plant foods, you get a lay from plant foods, but your body has to convert that your omega three fatty acids come from animals. That is one of the most crucial components of a brain. Cholesterol doesn’t exist in the plant family, you get cholesterol. Through production, your body actually produce about 12 egg yolks worth of cholesterol a day and cholesterol is not going to kill you. promise you there is so much information out there about the liquid hypothesis and how we actually don’t know that cholesterol is killing people. It’s actually it’s actually not the cause of what’s of the inflammation in the afro sclerotic plaque. It’s, it’s at the scene of that location, but it’s actually probably a protective mechanism. It’s probably something that buys producing to do to repair the damage that’s being caused by leaky gut in my toxins, bleeding through the gut barrier into the bloodstream, and then damaging your blood vessels. So I’m kind of going on and on and on.

Josh 25:34
Interesting. So so sorry, Go

Kurt 25:37
No, no, I was gonna say, um, so for me, it’s like you get beat 12 from animal foods you get da from animal foods you get you get Coleen, creatine carnosine carnitine. These are like the power foods of your brain in your emotional health like these are building blocks. You get heme iron from animal foods, none of that exists in plant foods. You need heme iron to create dopamine to have mental health. And we see studies now coming out that are interventional studies like proven situations where we’ve intervened and looked at the data and gone, okay, this vegan population, much higher rates of depression, much higher issues with cognitive decline. And then we go and we look at the animal food interventions. And what’s happened is we’ve missed. We’ve we’ve we’ve clogged the data, we’ve looked at people who have historically eaten a lot of food, a lot of red meats, versus people who have become mindful of eating a lot of plant foods, and we’ve gone Oh, well, if you ate a lot of plant foods, you were so much healthier than the guys that are eating those cheeseburgers and fries and Who else knows what they mixed in with their meat. Right and we made the meat the the villain in the crazy thing is, if you have high quality meat, it’s not it’s not what What needs to be vilified? In fact, that is the probably the most nutrient dense, least consequential food you could consume for your brain. And so I think for anyone who’s an entrepreneur, struggling with any sort of mental health issues or gut issues, it’s it’s a fantastic diet to consider.

Josh 27:17
Okay, so what I’m hearing from you is and because I want to, I’m completely new to this, right, which actually makes for great episodes, because now I’m right there with the with the listeners here, right? So it sounds like I’m gonna get into why we’re bashing vegetables so much here in a second. But it sounds to me like we’re focused on this is a diet for optimizing the brain and a diet for almost like optimizing overall performance in nutrients. Would that be correct?

Kurt 27:46
It’s hard to give it an exact title like that or label because in my, in my experience, in my understanding and what I’ve done to the research of the book, it’s pretty much the optimal line diet for a human being okay. start introducing plant foods, you’re not really getting a lot of benefits overall, you’re actually usually introducing toxins that are hurting your body. all levels are emotionally.

Josh 28:10
Yeah. So I want to talk about plant roots here in just one second. Because that’s obviously a big huge part of this. But is there anybody that like this diet is not for is this like, if you’re doing this if you’re like a super high hardcore athlete, or you’re trying to lose weight, or you’re trying to if there’s somebody like this is like, don’t follow this diet if your ex

Kurt 28:33
you know, I hate to say that, it’s like, it’s for everybody. But it’s really hard to look at people and tell them to go plant based like from a overall holistic perspective. There is nothing that I found in my research writing the book, and from what I’ve seen in the community, where being plant based gives you an advantage. Now, there are some extreme cases where we see people needing to do carb backloading With long distance or really high performance type athletics, and maybe in some cases bodybuilding, where literally a person wants to be an anabolic building muscle mode 1516 hours a day, then there’s some unique situations for everyone who’s an entrepreneur, for even the most elite achievers. If you want physical performance, you want optimize hormones, all that this is going to be optimal for you. And I don’t see any outliers where that’s not going to be the case. There may be some very unique situations, right? We’re talking less than 2% of population, where someone is a hyper responder in an allergic way to read me because everyone, there’s always some genetic polymorphism out there.

Josh 29:44
Right. We’re not focused on the exceptions to the rule here. We’re looking at the rule. Okay, yo, we got three core topics here. I was able to cover I think, let’s just go in line here. I think the first one is, let’s talk about fruits and vegetables then right? Because this is Hmm, I would say let’s say, attacking fruits and vegetables. And saying that plants are no longer are not needed in your diet anymore would probably be the most one of the more controversial things that you could say, right? I mean, we’ve had people on the podcast that are you know how people that are just like, just eat your fruits and vegetables every day if you do nothing else, just make sure you eat your fruits and vegetables every single day. Right? It’ll help you my mom. I mean, like, a huge proponent of fruits and vegetables and and came here, don’t get me wrong, dude. You’re telling me that I get to eat more meat and less fruits and vegetables? You are like my hero, right? Like, I’m like, this sounds awesome. Right? But like, what, what do you mean by that? And specifically, like, are fruits and vegetables actually bad for you? Are there certain vegetables and fruits that you’re wanting to stay away from? Talk to me about that specifically, as far as what do you mean? Should I just not eat fruits and vegetables anymore?

Kurt 30:51
Yeah, so when I talk about a carnivore diet, there are a lot of different people in this space. Probably the bigger influencers in the space Be Dr. Shaun Baker who is on the Joe Rogan experience. And carnivore MD my good friend actually Dr. Paul Saladino, who just wrote a book called The Carnival code and didn’t hold on sorry real quick didn’t Joe Rogan try the carnivore diet? I wanted to he did it the first month of the year and he lost like 17 pounds. Yeah, he. He said his mental clarity was like, he had never been clear. His energy levels were very consistent. And it was just like, Yeah, he had some awesome experience with it.

Josh 31:28
I’m trying to find the video here. You guys can probably go find it on his Instagram. He

Kurt 31:32
posted on his Instagram. He’s like sitting there and like a CrossFit gym and I posted on my Instagram too. And yeah, he he had a great experience. Well, yeah,

Josh 31:41
He goes yeah, he Yeah, here it is carnivore diet update. Lost 12 pounds feel amazing. Lots of aches and pains went away. And I have improvements in my little ego a little I go battle I go Yeah, I’m impressed. I haven’t decided if I’m going to keep eating like this, but this month was very beneficial. Edit the explosive Uber diarrhea stopper, how do we extend especially over the last two weeks? So, I mean, Joe Rogan, who I love, I mean, he gave it a shot and that’s his response for it. So explain to us what we’re talking about here.

Kurt 32:13
Okay, so you asked about, like, the general diet and then you know, yeah, vegetables and fruits. So my approach is, is more in lines with salad, you know, it’s where I recommend a nose to tail approach. So for diet, a nose to tail approach a nose which, which basically means you’re not just gonna like rib eyes all day long, and drink water like you can do that and you’ll probably be better off than eating the fruits and vegetables. But I recommend adding in liver and kidney and the reason I recommend that is because if you look at an animal and you look at where it stores its nutrients, the same with human beings, a lot of our B vitamins and vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin D, even vitamin E alpha tocopherol is stored in our liver and so when you Eat an animal liver, you actually get the same biochemistry that your body takes in. And so eating beef liver, not every day, but every couple of days, every few days, that is nature’s multivitamin, and you’re getting all those vitamins that you just don’t get in the same quantities that you would get from muscle meat. And so I recommend constructing a no still a carnivore diet. When you do a nose to tail carnivore diet, though you don’t need anything from fruits and vegetables. And the crazy thing is you don’t need fiber and all the vitamins you think you would need that would come from, like lemons like vitamin C or carrots like beta carotene. That’s all in the liver. It’s all in the kidneys, and you get none of the other nonsense that those foods would give you. And there is molecular stuff in these foods that is designed to prevent them from being eaten if if plants evolved to be a perfect superfood for animals They never would have existed, they would not be here today, they would have been consumed and destroyed from the planet like we would have, just like the woolly mammoths we would have eaten them to extinction, but they have evolved mechanisms where animals know and you can see this in nature. They’ll go in, they’ll eat certain plant foods, but their survival foods in a lot of times for a herbivore, they know based on the level of toxicity, how much of a plant they can eat, and they’ll eat some of it. But then they also have adaptations. They have much bigger guts to process and ferment the fiber that’s, that’s in their system. They have a different level of acidity. They have actually unique enzymes in their saliva. A lot of herbivores are chewing food for like 810 12 hours a day. Yeah, you don’t do that. Like humans just chop it down and it goes into our gut. Our gut gets really acidic. We rip it all apart in our gut, and then we absorb it and so it’s just it’s just crazy. When you start to get into the biochemistry of this, and then you start questioning all the conventional beliefs around animal foods not being healthy and go. Actually like liver from a cow is insanely healthy and like cholesterol is not what’s killing a human being because first of all your body makes it Your brain is like 70% cholesterol, it’s in every cell membrane. And you just start looking at all this stuff, and it’s just it blows your mind.

Josh 35:27
So it sounds like and correct me if I’m wrong here, it sounds like that. The reason that you don’t need fruits and vegetables anymore, and that you can do this through the carnivore diet is that the new nutrients and the nutrition that you would be getting from a fruit or a vegetable, the good part of the fruit or vegetable can be found in types of meat, like liver and heart, and you can consume it that way and avoid all of the negatives that come with plants. Is that correct?

Kurt 36:00
Yes. And if you think about it evolutionarily, and you go out into nature today, what are you going to find? You’re going to find a rabbit or a deer, or, you know, maybe there’s a wild cow back in the day. But the point the point is, you’re not going to go start shopping on bark, or tree leaves or grass, like the silicon, the grass would destroy you like, there is nothing evolutionarily for most human beings on this planet. That is not seasonal from a plant perspective. So when you go in your supermarket and you look at all those beautiful avocados or bananas or lemons that you’re eating, they’re not naturally there. They were shipped in from thousands of miles are genetically modified, and they’re loaded with lectins. With that with different molecules that we know destroy, that can really hurt the human gut, in your gut. It’s kind of crazy to think about this, but think about your environment, right? So we know as entrepreneurs, it’s really important that we get influenced by the right things right. Going into your mouth and down your esophagus into your stomach. There is literally a single layer of a cellular membrane between what comes into your environment that you’re exposed in, in tight inside your gut. And what actually goes in your bloodstream. And like 70% of your immune cells are there because your body needs to be really focused on what the hell is coming in there. Sorry for that. No, you’re good and not messing up, or getting into the bloodstream. And so your environment is just as much inside of your stomach as it is outside of you. And so when you’re putting in foods, like plant molecules that are toxic, that are not a native thing that you would have been consuming as a human being for probably millions of years,

Josh 37:41
But like, what about like, what about like apples? and pears? What about like fruits that grow on trees? Like I feel like I mean, I feel like that’s kind of pretty natural for us to go eat right? I mean, like vegetables, I can kind of see maybe, but like, and keep in mind. I know nothing about this right? So I am asking questions like a dumb idiot that I am when it comes off. And I’m like, What about like, what about an apple?

Kurt 38:03
Where would you seen apples and pears like six months of the year you got you got colder season, you’re not going to get fruit fruit blooms in the spring. And, you know, it’s very brief period of time where nature creates a sweet kind of plant food that can then be consumed by certain animals to fertilize the seed. But it’s not something that nutritionally gives you a lot of benefit. I mean, it spikes your blood sugar. It’s very seasonal. It’s not something you don’t eat apples like you don’t see apples in nature, your route like they’re never in the winter. The only thing you’re going to eat in the winter is going to be animal foods, plants or survival foods. Okay, plants are survival foods meaning what meaning as human beings, we have some biochemistry and some mechanisms that we still carry to process plants when we cannot get animal foods are the nutritional value of hunting a deer or an elk is so much more valuable and the nutrients we get in that animal are so much less triggering for people. That’s why we see in the, in the carnivore community if you go on there and you look, you just see case study after case study of of anecdotes. It’s not a true study, right? A lot of anecdotal feedback, but you see so many people reversing autoimmune diseases and reducing inflammation, losing weight, getting their brains back, because they’re literally feeding back into their bodies, the sort of diet that we were ancestrally designed to eat.

Josh 39:34
And is that Do you think that’s due to eating meat? Or is that due to lack of eating vegetables? Like To me, it seems like I guess, it seems kind of like a combination of both, but it almost seems to me like where we’re where you’re pinning a lot of negative is around fruits and vegetables and that fruits and vegetables actually do do a harm. Some sort. Is that true? Yeah.

Kurt 40:02
Yeah, no, no I, I’m 100% saying that most fruits and vegetables are not going to be a net positive on a human body. Wow. And, and I’m saying that if you just started eating meat, you probably would feel better because now you’re giving your body more of the essential nutrients that it’s designed to take in essential complete amino acids from protein. You know, the B 12 Kabbalah that your body needs to build nerve sheathing and process nerve stuff, you’re getting a lot more source of that nutrient creating, calling off stuff that you’ll get in plants, but then removing the plants, they’re all those plant toxins, those things like lectins isocyanate, in fact, broccoli, as much as I’d love to tell you that broccoli was amazing, and that your mom was right when she tells you all your broccoli on your plate. It’s actually not at all the case. If you eat a lot of broccoli, you get a lot of gas, you get a lot of protein or you get a lot of fiber. And you just there’s So many things in plants, you know, there’s a whole list of stuff I talk about and break down. But you look at the biochemistry, there’s nothing in almost no foods and plants can natively be accepted by humans, which is not necessarily an argument that we are carnivores because herbivores will eat plants and convert them. But we when we eat animal foods, the the vitamins and the nutrients that we get from the animal foods is actually coming through in a native form. And we’re not using our, our internal biochemistry, we’re not having to switch on mechanisms to convert those, those those sorts of nutrients. Like for example, vitamin A, in plants is only in beta carotene. But vitamin E, vitamin A and animal foods is retinol. retinol is the form that our body actually utilizes for eye health, for nerve health for brain health. So it’s just a testament like why would you know why would this vitamin we can eat it in a human we don’t get inflammation, we don’t get autoimmune triggering and There’s really nothing in the biochemistry when we take in like a piece of liver, other than copper, vitamin A and all these vitamins versus like a plant. If you find it in vitamin A, like beta carotene, you might also get some sort of triggering molecule that that could could just trigger your gut could cause inflammation, things like that.

Josh 42:19
Okay, so what type of meats are we talking about here? Because I can’t imagine McDonald’s cuts it fits the bill there. So like, What? Is there a specific type of animal? Is there a specific way it’s cooked? Like what what type of meat Are you referring to here specifically that we should be focused on if we’re going to eat this diet?

Kurt 42:40
So usually, the redder the meat the better so red meat is prefer.

Josh 42:44
You’re literally going against everything that I’ve ever heard and like, don’t get me wrong. I love it. I just think it’s hilarious because I’m like, if this be true, man, my life is gonna be so great. But okay, so red meat red meat here.

Kurt 42:58
Red Meat is red meat. preferred, you get more, you get more pack per punch in terms of the the nutrient profile, you’ve got more of the amino acids, you’ve got more of the kind of superfoods that we call in animal foods like creatine and, and it tends to also carry more fat, which is where a lot of the stored vitamins and minerals can be in the animal. Now, to your point, that’s also where we store a lot of our toxicity. So if an animal if you’re eating an animal and it’s innately that animal was chopping on Monsanto’s soy feed, then it’s possible that it might have glyphosate roundup in there, it might have genetically modified stuff that just would mess it up and it could be sick, and it could have antibiotics and other things that pass through it through its fat. So look, we’re looking for clean, clean meat. In a perfect world. We would eat regenerative Li farmed organic, red meat like grass fed beef, grass fed bison you know, some elk, some deer meat, you know, things like that. And maybe some pork as well, technically that’s considered red meat. Those would be the better cuts. There’s nothing wrong with chicken. There’s certainly some benefits and some of the dark cuts the dark meat of chicken that like vitamin K two is pretty high and chicken, for example, dark meat, but you don’t get quite as much of that full meat profile and it tends to be more lean. And one of the big arguments around the carnivore diet is it’s a ketogenic diet. And so the beauty with the ketogenic diet, I don’t know if you’ve done anything with that on your on your show before you probably have experimented with ketones or ketogenic diet.

Josh 44:38
Yeah, we haven’t had anybody on specifically to talk about it, but I know what you’re referring to, and you mean that.

Kurt 44:44
So So ketones are really unique. And one of the things we think about in the carnivore community is getting our bodies into a low level of ketosis. And the reason for that is unless you’re like an extreme CrossFit like, high level competitor where you absolutely burn out your muscles for multiple hours a day. And you need to just pump in like a direct drip feed of like honey, or some high glycemic glycemic carbs to just go right into the muscle, which is probably not ancestrally consistent with most of us, we’re not going to be doing that. You are probably better off running on ketones, ketones burn oxygen much more efficiently in the body, they create a lot less reactive oxygen species in terms of oxidative damage when they’re actually converting in being used for energy in ourselves. And ketones is what the body shifts into metabolically using when we’re no longer consuming carbohydrates. And so,

Josh 45:41
Okay, so and I guess that’s my question right there. So for those people that have no idea what this is, you’re better off running on ketones versus what?

Kurt 45:51
carbs, glucose. So we have two mechanisms as a human being okay to run on carbohydrates. And we actually ironically, this is interesting, Josh We see tribes, Equatorial tribes, some equatorial tribes where they have year round access to carbohydrates. They can thrive on carbs, and they don’t have markers of diabetes and some of these health markers we see in the Western society, eating a very hard high carb diet. But the caveat is they don’t eat fat, the very low fat so it’s an Atkins diet. Atkins diet was really famous for basically being high protein, high carb, low fat, ketogenic diet is low carb, moderate protein, high fat and high fat as you mentioned with your sister. They treat epileptic patients, which is also another testament to this and what it does to your brain. Your brain is mostly fat and cholesterol. It loves ketones. In fact, ketones are more they’re more neuroprotective and they’re beneficial to the brain. We talked about the damage the oxidative damage that can happen with burning a lot of carbs. I don’t think ancestrally Our ancestors are constantly jumping on berries or pears or apples. They had a woolly mammoth. And they ate that thing in their tribe for you know, three weeks, and then they didn’t have food for a week or two, and they were fasted, and they were running on ketones, because when your body doesn’t get food, and you tap out your native glucose sources, your native carb surf sources, you are running on ketones, and when you eat a moderate protein, high fat diet, your entire physiology is shifted and you’re now in ketosis, and that’s where ketones which one of the most popular one is beta hydroxy, butyrate, that molecule can be substituted for a carbohydrate glucose molecule to give the cell energy to produce ATP and actually run your body.

Josh 47:47
Okay, so one of the things that happened with my sister when she went on the ketogenic diet, and I just always remember when I’m saying this is, we did not want her body to go into a state I think it was ketosis. But I could be wrong on that where the body starts storing fat we wanted to get and this is specifically for her, for her, I understand is different because it’s her for seizures. But it was, as she started having seizures when her body got too much stuff, that instead of feeding the brain and feeding the body directly what it needs, it’s like, oh, we have an excess. Let’s go create fat cells and store it. And when that happened, that’s when she would have seizures. It. Are we talking about anything in relation to that here.

Kurt 48:34
So it sounds to me in in I’m a little rusty on this. It could be that. So your body doesn’t store fat when you’re eating fat. It’s it’s kind of a confusing thing because you’re like, oh, fat makes me fat. But that’s not true. Your body stores fat. When you produce insulin. The reason you produce insulin is because you’re eating sugar. When you eat a carbohydrate, you’re getting sugar in your body. That’s not inherently bad. But what happens is the insulin in and of itself, when it comes in, it’s a hormone that regulates the blood sugar in your vessels in your blood vessels in your kidneys. In your heart. If blood sugar goes above a certain level that’s very tightly regulated, then you can damage the blood vessels and you can get kidney damage. So, what happens is the excess sugar has to go somewhere and insulin opens up your fat cells and it stuffs the sugar into your fat cells. So, ironically, when you eat carbs, they get stored as fat when you have too many of them. Okay,

Josh 49:37
okay, so, excuse me going back to eating this way. Clean meats, red meats, typically beef, pork, I’m sorry elk, deer, bison, things like that. Chickens not bad. What about fish?

Kurt 49:53
Fish is great. You know there’s a there’s there’s definitely some conjecture and discussion around the benefits of fish and We see a lot of societies that are really healthy with fish. Yeah, fish fats are obviously a big one, the omega three fatty acids and fish. The big caveat with fish and things you get to watch for is the quality. It’s always a question of how clean it is. Because there’s a lot of unfortunately now in the Pacific, there’s a lot of radiation from Fukushima. And then in the Atlantic, there’s a ton of pollution. So you can kind of pick one of the lesser evils. Yeah, a lot of fishes is dirty.

Josh 50:25
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay. And I think that that’s just kind of true across the board. You got to be really careful with the meat that you’re putting in your body. I grew up on a farm and it was all organic, all grass fed beef, our name, the guy we bought it down. We buy cat cow at the time, right? And it was 100% organic grass fed clean meat. Now when I get meat, it’s organic, free range, grass fed beef, you know, things like that. So you know, that type of meat. This is the type of meat that we’re referring to. We’re not saying hey, go down to McDonald’s or go down to you know, your local, whatever that has the cheapest crappy meat and that’s Good for you. We are talking specifically about clean healthy meat here, right?

Kurt 51:04
So you can eat even conventionally raised beef, and as long as you’re not getting heavily loaded on the fat content of the beef, so if you want to do ground meat, and it’s fairly lean, even conventionally raised grain fed beef is going to be fine for you. It’s going to give you quite a bit of nutrients. Okay, a big thing we’re trying to avoid is like Atrazine and glycine glyphosate, which are roundup and hormone disruptors that are carried mostly in the fats of the animals. So I recommend for people don’t let good be the enemy of perfect you know, so if you if you can do just like that’s just what fits your budget, it’s probably still a lot better than eating most of the plant foods that you think are healthy for you but are actually triggering you again, if you if you do good, do you but right for a lot of people, I think this can make a big change. So conventionally raised meat when it starts getting into the fattier cuts like rip Eyes and the big fat caps. And then if you’re actually going out and seeking fat in in itself, like fat trimmings from the animal, then it’s more important to watch for grass fed. And just make sure you’re avoiding those grains and the chemicals that come with those grains

Josh 52:14
Does the level of how well it’s cooked matter at all.

Kurt 52:18
That’s an interesting one. So actually cooking it too much is probably more of a challenge than under cooking it I’ve actually gone raw, raw carnivore for about a month, and everything was raw Bran saying you got it you got to be careful. You obviously need to trust the source of your meeting. Um, but I do drink the blood in the meat that I eat most of the most of the meat I source from a farm that I know. So I’m very familiar with the word like literally where the animal was, yeah, I’ve been to the land at the animal came from and I trust them and I know who they are. And so the blood has a lot of magnesium and vitamins and other things that come out of it. And it doesn’t it doesn’t taste that bad. But you know, again, you’re like a vampire. You’re like, what am I doing here? But uh,

Josh 53:08
Okay, wait, so yeah,

Kurt 53:10
I can’t even remember what you’re asking me to

Josh 53:12
read like how well should it be?

Kurt 53:14
Because I’m a me Oh yeah, yeah so so so you I always now I have actually I ordered my steaks rare because I feel like even the restaurants they cook them, they cook them too much when they go medium rare. And the water soluble content in food. There are water soluble vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin B are both water soluble. Those ones are more sensitive to temperature and evaporating and being broken from heat. And so you are better off eating certain foods in particular kidneys, organ meats, like liver and kidney if you can, if you can stomach it and handle it. I try to eat those raw and then largely because I know those are loaded with the vitamins that I want

Josh 53:58
And I try to come up scissoring you say that so kind of a growth story people if you’re like, you know, I mean if you’re on this episode me You’re already past this point. But I lived on a farm and we raised in butcher chickens a lot so free range chickens stuff like that i butcher thousands of chickens in my lifetime. We had this a friend of ours, we’d always go over to his place It was his butcher shop. He has big huge farm or whatever, but he I mean, this dude is like the most out there dude. Like houses made of straw bale. Like he has a straw bale house and like solar everything like this dude, the whole world could collapse and he’d just be living right? He’s great. But okay, he, whenever we would go butcher chickens, he would do that same thing. We would literally go he’d be butcher him. He’d rip out the liver and he would just take a bite of it right there. And I would just I remember being so grossed out by that is the worst thing ever. But he’s like, Dude, it’s so good for you, yada yada and that’s exactly what you’re talking about. Okay, for the sake of time here I do want to kind of move on. There’s a couple more pieces that I want to touch on. What about like non fruits and vegetable food but are also not meat. Are we staying away from those things like bread or pasta, or sauces and things like that, like, are you talking like meat and meat and meat? Or is there room for things like that? What do we stay away from as far as other foods when it comes to non fruits and vegetables.

Kurt 55:13
So in general, the carnivore diets can encompass anything that comes from an animal and anything that’s a plant molecule, you’re going to try to Nick’s out and so any grain would be grown out of the ground, that would definitely be out. One interesting area that I’m experimenting with Josh is is fun guy. And so fun guys unique. It’s actually technically oxygen consuming, and it’s older than the plant kingdom. But we know some of the fungi have toxicity to them in terms of not just the psychedelics or whatever, but like they have a they have some they have some craziness there. I don’t know if you’ve explored like psilocybin or stuff like that. But uh, yeah, it’s been an interesting topic.

Josh 55:55
I like psychedelics. Yeah, I just, I just did a ceremony on Friday afternoon. It really Yeah, man.

I’m a fan for sure. I would just say that anyone that’s curious about that approach it with caution, I firmly endorse it, but just like, know what you’re getting into, because it is on real, like it is just so crazy. So I’d be in a good mental state before you go down that road, but I highly endorse it. Okay.

Kurt 56:23
Yeah. So so to kind of close out your question. Yeah, yeah, it’s, uh, it’s all animal foods, plant foods in general, you want to mix and the idea is, you don’t have to get rid of them forever. Think about getting rid of them for it’s it’s an elimination diet. So it’s really like clean things out and then reintroduce, and see how you feel because everyone has a genetic kind of sensitivity. Yeah, you may find if you give it a coffee for 60 days, and then you reintroduce it it just wrecks you and you’re like, holy crap, like I’ve been eating this for like, you know, consuming this for two years and I never realized how bad it made me feel.

Josh 56:55
Yeah, so what about for drinks then are you straight water so

Kurt 57:01
Yeah, pretty much all water. Some of the guys that for SIG Matic like, mushroom tea stuff just because I’m playing with the fun guy a bit, but yeah, but most of the water Yeah, I don’t do any any coffee anymore. You could do coffee some carnivores are like, go for it and it has worked for you So Ron, but technically technically coffee is is it’s got a lot of problems with it it’s got it’s got mold toxins. Yeah, I mean that’s Yeah. And then you know it for me I found it caused a lot anxiety some people have issues with metabolizing caffeine and it affects their sleep. Yeah, um, and I just found I was like a cycle for me. Like when I get on coffee. It’s like I need almost like to get back on it to get back to baseline. And then yeah, so, um, so it’s water. That’s me, I just drink water and sparkling water, a lot of total Chico’s and kind of stuff.

Josh 57:52
Cool. Okay. So why? I guess both of my questions kind of fit into this next like piece there’s like two more things. topics I think I want to cover with this is like, why has traditional like fruits and vegetables and the idea and concept around fruit, eat your fruits and vegetables, fruits and vegetables are healthy for you. That’s what you should be eating red meat traditionally is bad, quote unquote, right? Like, where does this logic come from? First off, and let’s just let’s start there, where where does the logic of why fruits and vegetables are healthy? Where does that come from? And why is why I guess we’ve already covered why it’s wrong. So where does it come from? And why is it told everybody?

Kurt 58:34
So Western medicine back in like the 50s 60s and 70s really followed some of the research done by a fellow named ancel keys and ancel keys really demonized saturated fat. So saturated fat came on and we started seeing fat people and we started looking at fat and we started seeing kidney failure, and we started seeing protein in urine and there I can go into the details of them briefly. But the the idea was like the, they looked at data sets, and they intentionally left out outliers to paint a picture, that saturated fat was causing clogged arteries and killing people. And so that story became a mainstream platform for most of Western medicine that we see today. And most pharmaceuticals focused on most medicine focused on eliminating that variable. And so fruits and vegetables naturally sort of started to fill in, because we no longer had meat as a primary food source. And we started looking at different plant foods and researchers researching and focusing in on the actual benefits of the antioxidant benefits there. And so that’s the small picture of it. The The other thing is the lip offices, which is this whole thing around cholesterol and how much we didn’t under Stand about cholesterol but we thought we did around the fact that we were cutting open people who had cardiovascular symptoms and disease. And then we were going oh my goodness, there’s all this cholesterol and clogging and calcification within the endothelial layer of their arteries. And we went, man, they were eating all that cholesterol. what’s what’s funny is people think that red meat causes kidney damage, or that it can be you know, a few too much protein, your kidneys can start to fail.

Josh 1:00:28
Let’s talk about that really quick just to find this really quick. The common agreement or the common wordage around the negative benefits of red meat are what red meat is bad because it does blank.

Kurt 1:00:43
It causes heart disease. It has cholesterol or fat in it, which contributes to that. It can be saturated fat, about I think it’s about 40% of animal fat is saturated fat, which again was very demonized as a source for cardiovascular risk. It it can contribute to a topic endotoxin in the gut that people have have associated called new job, new fight GC, which we’ve gone and actually looked at the new onset, it’s not technically true. But we looked at all those things removed, all those mechanisms went,

Josh 1:01:13
this is that side of us. So then if if that is the accusation, or that’s the common wisdom that says red meat does XYZ PDQ or she just talked about here, right? If you’re saying doesn’t do that, then what does cause those things?

Kurt 1:01:31
We don’t actually know. We think we know. And so what we think it is, is it’s it’s actually hyperinsulinemia and leaky gut. So most people are metabolically dysfunction, there’s estimates of about 80% of Americans are at some level experiencing metabolic disease. That means that their, their body is no longer able to process blood sugar is having problems being regulated and they are fat. They’re basically getting fat. At some degree, so we think that it’s leaky gut, mostly from from that things, toxins, and things that are not supposed to be in our in our bloodstream and in our bodies are getting through the gut barrier in our body, and we’re constantly dealing with inflammation and autoimmune response to that. And that’s largely being caused by food that we’re consuming that biologically, we’re not supposed to be consuming at the amounts that we are.

Josh 1:02:29
Okay. So, one of the questions that I know and I have to ask you because I know it’s gonna come up a million times is like, when I like I don’t like fruits and vegetables. They’re all nasty to me, man. Oh my God, I hate them. But you don’t like any fruits? Bananas, maybe right? Like, maybe right like chocolate or blueberries or chocolate maybe but like, yeah, like, you know what I mean? Like, I’m not really fruit vegetable guy, but I eat them. And yeah, I’ll admit, like, Listen, when I sit down and every day from For a week, I eat a fruits for breakfast, right? I have some form of fruit. And then for lunch or dinner, I sit down and have a really big salad or red peppers and things like that, right? There’s no denying that I feel better, right? Like I feel higher energy. I feel cleaner. I just feel overall better now. I’m not saying necessarily in comparison to strictly meat because I don’t think I’ve ever truly eaten just strictly meat. Right? Right. Like, obviously, it must be better than something because I am. I feel better when I eat them. Right. So like, why is it typically speaking then that when people do eat fruits and vegetables, and they’re like, oh, man, I feel so much better. What is happening there? And why would all plant I mean, it’s all an all-meat diet, give that same effect, but also better, like what is it actually cutting out?

Kurt 1:03:52
So I think people are feeling better because they’re switching from a standard American diet, where they’re just eating total crap to more Whole Foods. diet with the fruits and vegetables. So that’s like kind of the first piece I would say like, yeah, if you’re eating a spinach salad versus the McDonald’s cheeseburger with, you know, white bun and french fries, you’re probably gonna feel better, even though technically, the salad doesn’t have any red meat in it. Um, the next level up is if you can get whole all quality meat and you can cook it in a way where you know, you’re, you’re not just burning the crap out of it or deep-frying oil. When you get to that level. Now you’ve nixed out the plant phytochemicals that are going to be triggering for a lot of people. And so it’s like that first level, okay, fruits and vegetables. Okay, maybe I feel good, great. You just kind of substitute them for probably crap. The other thing I would say, and this is a big piece of it is there’s a transitionary period. So for a lot of people who go for example, from a carbohydrate diet to a ketogenic diet. They struggle for about a week or two, maybe even three weeks with what’s called the keto flu. They basically their metabolism

Josh 1:05:02
Joe Rogan talked about Eddie’s crapped his pants.

Kurt 1:05:05
Yeah, he was in that was actually probably more of a gut microbiome shift than a metabolic shift, but it’s probably both, okay. And so in my, in my book, I say, look, if you’re going to do the carnivore diet, you’re probably going to plan for two to three weeks of just diarrhea, and, and just low energy and shifting because what’s happening is your small intestine is where you digest most of your animal foods. And your large intestine is where you digest a lot of your plant foods. It’s just, that’s how we evolutionary evolved from our primate ancestors, you eat a lot more plants. When you shift the macro scale of the food that you’re consuming to a lot more animal foods. You need bacteria to keep up with that in a different volume. And so a lot of people tell me like I don’t feel like when I eat a big steak, you know, I feel heavy. I can’t, you know, it’s just like, I feel a lot of lighter and I feel a lot better. Just more like free when I eat all these plants and vegetables, yes. And I just go like, yeah, cuz you don’t have the gut microbiome shift that you need. Like I can knock down literally like two pounds of rib eyes and then go sprint 30 minutes later Wow, I’m fine. It’s like your body needs a couple of weeks to feed the bacteria and you need to adjust it’s a diet that you haven’t eaten ever and now you’re expecting yourself to feel amazing The moment you shift.

Josh 1:06:32
Yeah, okay. All right, that makes sense. What do you have for breakfast,

Kurt 1:06:36
Usually, some form of steak and I’ll do like a couple raw egg yolks for the Coleen and the vitamins in the eggs. actually get duck eggs here local farmers market. I’m in Austin, Texas. We’ve got amazing farmers here. And then I am a really big fan of raw beef fat. So a lot of people don’t know this. You can go to a local butcher shop or a farmers market and you can get the fat from the cash. And you can actually, that is like pure fat. It’s super cheap, it’s loaded with vitamins, you can get grass-fed fat for like six, seven bucks a pound. And I eat that and I just mixed it in with my food and it’s like a great source of fat for me to kind of just feel myself.

Josh 1:07:16
Hmm, interesting. Okay, all right, dude, this has been fascinating. Guys, I want to be very clear I am not in any way endorsing or not endorsing this just to let you know I just thought this was a really interesting topic go try it for yourself I mean he seems to you seem to be pretty set on it man like that that this works and I applaud you for That’s awesome. Um, so I appreciate you coming on here and kind of like explaining this because this is a whole new world and I like what you said there about kind of at the end that it does take some time to switch over to this to let your body get up to speed with it’s not like just tomorrow you’re gonna start eating all meat and just feel amazing overnight. There is a process there. I think the big question now for people is all right, maybe I want to try this or at least I want to learn a little bit more about this and what you do and what you’re teaching what we’re talking about. out here, where can people go and find you? Where are some resources that we can give them point them in that direction.

Kurt 1:08:04
So the best resource right now we have is our YouTube channel. I started working with my team called karnivorekurt with K’s, so carnivores, the K and carnivore with the K. They can go there, they can learn all about that we have a book that’s dropping next Monday, I took four months of my life to write it. It was it’s my baby. So all the YouTube videos basically I’ve linked descriptions in our bio to drive people to our website where we have information about the book and they can join the wait list for that drop. And then Kurtkarnivorekurt is basically all of our social handles, so they can learn more about that they’re.

Josh 1:08:39
Nice, all right, sweet. All right, well, we’re gonna we’ll drop all that down below as well in the description there. So guys, go check out the YouTube channel, the Instagram, and then we’ll also include a link to the book. I don’t know if we have to wait till it comes out. If we you’re listening past three days after this comes out then it’ll probably Yeah, that link down below there as well. But dude, I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate it. Coming on here just explaining all this has been a fascinating conversation. Is there any last words or anything that you have for the audience?

Kurt 1:09:07
Um, no, I think if you’re struggling with gut issues, you’re struggling with anxiety, maybe. And a lot of this is subjective. So just keep in mind, like, these experiments can be really fun to do as a person because, you know, for example, I used to not really care as much about my sleep, and I really dialed it in. And it’s like, almost like an alcoholic who doesn’t realize they’re drunk. So when you, when you dial these things in, you get a huge edge. And if you can add 10, even 5% more to your mental clarity and you can make better decisions and you can run your day better. I think a diet like this can be really powerful and it’s super easy to implement. So I highly recommend checking it out if you’re in any sort of realm, dealing with something like that, and it’s, it’s something you can easily implement.

Josh 1:09:53
Cool, cool, cool. Kurt, man, I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for coming on. Guys. As always, hustle. God bless. God bless Do you think are different? Because those of us that think different are going to be the ones that changed the world. Don’t forget to subscribe leave a rating and review on both Facebook and on iTunes. Guys. Let’s get that get those numbers up. I appreciate you all. I love you all. And I will see you on the next episode. Take it easy fam. Peace.

Outro 1:10:17
Yo, what’s up guys? You’ve been listening to The Think Different Theory with myself, Josh Forti, which I like to call, “A new paradigm of thinking”, and real quick, I got a question for you. Did you like this episode? If you did, I want to ask a huge favor. See, the biggest thing that helps this podcast grow, and that will spread this message of positivity and making the world a better place, is if you leave a review, a rating and subscribe to the podcast. What that does is, it basically tells the platforms that this is out on, that you like my stuff, and that I’m doing something right. So if you could take like three seconds out of your day and subscribe, leave a rating, and a review, I would be forever grateful for you. Also, I want to hear from you. I want to know your feedback, your ideas, and your questions for future episodes. So be sure to hit me up on Instagram in the DM @JoshForti or via email