WHAT IS THIS EPISODE ABOUT?
In this episode, I am going to give you my full view on college and why I think it is quite possibly the biggest scam in history – for certain people.
WHY SHOULD I LISTEN?
I’m going to go into why I think college is a scam and I’ll do this while at the same time stressing the importance of education. Contradictory? Maybe, you’ll have to be the judge of that.
We will dive into my thoughts on should you go. Maybe you’re in college, maybe you’re out of college, maybe haven’t gone to college yet, maybe you’re thinking about going to college, maybe you’re a parent who has kids that are going to college, I would like to hope this episode is going to reach more than just my target market. So we’re going to break down, and we’re really going to go into the statistics and the facts.
Here are the key topics discussed in this episode:
- The questions I started to ask that changed my direction (3:23 – 6:26)
- The short answer, for if college is right for you (6:26)
- The real stats and who doesn’t need you to have
a college degree (7:30 – 11:00)
- The best decisions I made to become successful (16:00)
- What could you do with the money instead? (21:21)
- How education is important (22:00)
WHERE CAN I LEARN MORE?
Be sure to follow me on the below platforms:
WHEN DID IT AIR?
February 1, 2019
Be sure to follow me on Instagram @joshforti
Oh boy oh boy oh boy this episode is going to be a good one guys!
The oh so controversial topic of college and is college a scam. Should you go should you not. This is going to be a good episode! So buckle up and strap in; you’re not going to want to go anywhere because this won’t get heated.
What’s up guys welcome back to another episode of The Think Different Theory. My name is Josh Forti. And if you are new here well make sure to subscribe leave a rating and leave a review. We are on episode number 20.
And we’re going to talk about this controversial topic of college. Is college a scam? Should you go? Maybe you’re in college, maybe you’re out of college, maybe haven’t gone to college yet, maybe you’re thinking about going to college, maybe you’re a parent who has kids that are going to college, I would like to hope this episode is going to reach more than just my target market. So we’re going to break down, and we’re really going to go into the statistics and the facts.
And boy, if you’ve been following me for any amount of time you probably
know where I’m going with this. But I actually want to set the record straight because a lot of people think I’m anti-college. And while you may think that by the end of the episode, I am not. I really want to clarify this because let’s dive in.
I have an older brother who is very successful, who has a successful company; employees and is doing very, very well for himself. And he went to college, and he worked his butt off through college, he actually ended up graduating debt free and by the way, congratulations bro, love your work ethic. And we’ll get to that later.
And then there’s me on the other hand where I am a college dropout. I didn’t actually even get through on the full 5-credit semester. I dropped out of college. But there’s a reason behind this, so I want to talk about this because so many people think that college is necessary. Or they say college is not necessary, and they have no facts or statistics or anything to back up why college isn’t necessary. And I actually want to do that. And so if you’re like anti-college right now and can’t back it up, well you’re just dumb. So you need to get educated. So let me educate you. And if you’re pro college, let me educate you as well. Okay, let me tell you my college experience.
So I when I first started college I had gone through, I tried to start my own business. It was in the farming space and worked my butt off for two years, and just hustle hustle-hustle; 18 hours a day, 6 days a week. Worked more than any human should ever have to work.
But I did it to just to try and get ahead. And my company ended up going bankrupt…so…So I listened to the advice of all the people that I thought were smart in my life, which ended up being probably; I don’t know maybe wasn’t the worst decision. But if I stayed in college, it would have been.
But they told me to go to college I needed an education, get wise, get smart. So I can actually get paid some money and work for somebody in the system.
And oh, that was going to be my key to success.
But anyway, I went to college and to be fully transparent and honest, I went to a local college. But I had to pay my own way. My parents didn’t pay for my college, and I didn’t get government funding. I didn’t do any of that; I had to pay my way through college, and I worked hard for it. So I saved up the money. I went to college.
And as I was sitting there, I started really thinking about as I was banging my head against tables, literally, for a lot of my college classes. The people that were teaching me, my job… (I was going for a business degree). I wanted to do a business degree because I want to start a business.
In my first like a semester of college, I technically went for like, two different semesters. And one of them was like, three credit or like three classes. And the other one was like, I started five. And then ended up dropping out and then anyway.
Not a single one of my professors in my first year of college actually ran a business. I think only one had actually managed a business. But none of them actually owned businesses or had any experience with that.
How does that make any sense? So I remember thinking about this very clearly. I was like this is ridiculous. How am I supposed to learn?
But I wanted to follow through I kept doing it. And then one day I was sitting in the college classroom arguing back and forth with my professor.
I’ll never forget this day because we were going there. And we were going back and forth. And he was saying that you have to have a college degree in order to be successful.
And I said, “wait for a second, hold up, hold up. You mean to tell me that
for in order for me to be successful I need a college degree.” And he’s like, ‘well, statistics prove that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the reason that you’re here is that you want to be successful, is it not?’ And I’m like, “Yes. But I don’t have to have a college degree in order to be successful.”
And so we went back and forth, back and forth. And so he looked at me now I’ll never forget this. I remember where I was sitting. I remember the whiteboard in front of me. And I remember, oh I will tell you what happened next, I remember this all very clearly. I had my backpack down to the right-hand side.
And the professor said, “if you don’t think that you don’t need a college degree to be successful.” By the way, this guy like had three degrees!
“You don’t think you need any college to be successful, then why the heck are you here?”
And there was like silence in the classroom. And now I don’t like to be like, gotcha, right. Like, I don’t like to have that. And I like to be left speechless.
So I took like two to three seconds to come up with a response in my head.
And so I looked at him, and I remember thinking he is so right! And so I looked him straight in the eye. And I said, “you know what, you’re right, I quit!”
And I went, and I got my stuff. I put it into my backpack. I stood up, and I said; “I’m going to go make a million bucks.”
I don’t know how I don’t know. And I walked out of that classroom everyone thought I was crazy. I walked down to the bursary office, I quit my classes. And I went off, and I remembered in the car going holy crap, I have no idea what I’m going to do. This might be the dumbest decision of my life.
But I am not going to let some idiot Professor this was what I was thinking. I’m not going to let some idiot professor that does not control my life, and a piece of paper that says I know something; control whether or not I have success or not because that is not what defines success. That’s not what’s going to get me anywhere I want to be in life. So screw this, I’m out, and I drove off, and I was determined. And I’ve done pretty well for myself, and a lot of people that have quit college have as well.
So that’s my college experience. Now let’s dive into whether or not college is right for you. Or whether I think college is a scam; because this question is if college is a scam!
If you’re an entrepreneur if you are someone that wants to go and build a business, like you want to own your own company and make money work for yourself college is the biggest freaking scam. Insert swear word because I don’t swear I won’t actually swear but like insert that word here.
It is the biggest freakin’ scam you will ever in your life like it is stupid you should not go. It is a waste of money, and it’s a waste of time, that money can be used so many other ways. If you are paying for college, if you have to fund the money; I’m going to be very clear about this. I don’t think I said that part at the beginning. If you have to pay for college, it’s totally different if your parents are paying for it if you’re getting it for free.
If you right now, have to pay for college. And you’re going to want to go be an entrepreneur and start your own business. It’s a waste of time, and it’ll be the worst decision you’ll ever make; well it’ll be the biggest rip off there is.
Let’s go over some statistics to back this up okay. I want to quote this; this is right off of CNN or CNBC.com. Okay. This was posted in 2018. In February 2018. “The average student graduates with anywhere between 37 and $42,000 in debt.”
The average student right, by the way, that’s a 20% payment down on $185,000 house a 10% payment down on a $370,000 house, you can buy a brand new Audi for $36,000 so less than that. I don’t know what the Tesla is, but it says on here, Tesla Model three was 35,000 you could buy that.
The average start-up costs, according to CNBC, by the way, this is not true at all. It’s way less than this, but they’re saying that the start-up costs for a businesses are $30,000, you can start a business to $30,000, you have a $35,000 wedding, you could have a $34,000 swimming pool put in for the amount of debt they’re carrying when they graduate college, and you get all of these things.
And that’s what the average person is graduating with. Oh, and by the way, the average monthly student loan payment right now is nearly $400. $400 All right, is the average student loan payment per month or $393.
Okay, we now have $1.5 trillion in student loan debt. There are over 45 million people carry $1.5 or $1.2 trillion dollars in student loans. We borrow over 100 and 6 billion each new-year.
Okay. Over 70% of college graduates carry debt. That means 7 out of 10
people are in debt to get a worthless piece of paper if you’re going in for business. Over 11% of loans are delinquent and over 100 billion, $103 billion in quarter 2 of 2018 was sent to private collections agencies.
It’s ridiculous, and It’s only getting worse. And 2011 the average person at $27,000 in debt. In 2016, only five years later now it’s up to almost $40,000. So like it’s just getting worse and worse and worse. Now, the argument used to be back on this ‘Josh, if you want to get ahead in life, if you want people to respect you no-one, is going to take you seriously unless you have a college degree.’ Now, I am specifically talking about business people here. We’re going to get to where you get to other people later.
But that the common response to this was, no one’s going to take you seriously, you’re not going to land a job. You’re going to get paid more if you have a college degree. Oh, really? Is that so? Well, let’s say this. All right. This is as at 2018 as well, in August 2018. Oh, Google, Apple. And 12 other major companies no longer require employees to have a college degree to work for them. Oh, wait for not only Apple not only Google but also IBM.
Also penguin house random also Costco also Whole Foods also Hilton also Publix also Starbucks also Nordstrom also the Home Depot also IBM also Bank of America all so Lowes; I just keep going okay.
These companies big billion multi-billion multi-hundred billion dollar companies no longer. In fact, Apple is the biggest company in the world. They don’t require you to have a college degree. College degrees don’t mean what they used to be. Going to college isn’t going to teach you what real-world skills in business can teach you.
Now I want to flip it. I want to put this here I want to talk about all college degrees. Because I do believe that college is right. For some people for certain skill sets if you want to be a doctor or scientist or a lawyer college is obviously necessary. It’s probably not a waste of your time if you want to go be a lawyer. Why? Because you’ve got to go through college in order to get your pass the bar exam or do those things you want to be a doctor brain surgeon, you’re going to have to go to medical school. That’s obvious.
But so many people in life, they graduate from high school, they go right into college, and they have absolutely no plan to do with your life. And they go for some b.s. generic degree that isn’t going to pay them any money like social services or teaching listen, I’m not bashing these careers.
I’m not. And I have mad respect to people that want to work in the social justice world, or the teaching world, or these things, you have to understand.
Why would you go get a degree…in fact let me go Google this now. I’m doing research now but everything is already prepared, but I’m going to do this in real time. ‘What is the average cost of an average for a 4-year college degree.’ Let’s pull this up right now. Okay, the average cost of college in 2018. Oh goodness gracious, the average cost of a private college for 4 years is about $35,000 per year and about $25,000 for public or $25,000 for out of state and about $15,000 for in the state. Source: student debt relief.
For 2017/2018 so we do the math here right now. So $35,000 if you’re going to a private school times 4 years. $140,000 Why would you spend $140,000 on something when you don’t know what you want to do? Let’s go on the low end. Let’s just say $15,000.
Let’s say you somehow get away with college tuition, room and board, books and everything for $15,000 for four years. Why would you spend 60 or $70,000 on something when you don’t actually know what you want to do in life? College is stupid it’s the biggest scam on the face of the earth for people that don’t know what they want to do.
If you if, there is a specific need and a specific reason for you to go to college like I said, Dr. scientist, lawyer things of that nature, good for you. Go to college, you need those things. I hope you have a plan to pay it off. I hope things go well for you in that sense to pay it off.
But if you are not like and this is going to offend some people I know that there might be people back home listening in Indiana, they’re like, ‘well, I’m going to college.’ You shouldn’t be going to college! I just don’t think you should. I’m sorry. Like, I don’t think that if you don’t know what you want to do with your life, that college is the answer. I think that experience is, I think, interning is, I think going and getting a job, a real job is take a year off take a gap year.
But to sit around and think the College of the answer when 70% of people graduate with debt on average of $40,000, why would you do that to yourself, you’re literally setting up yourself to fail because now you can’t take risks. Now you can’t go out there; no bank is going to look at you and go ‘yeah let me give you a great loan to start your business up. If you even need a loan to start up a business. Because you got $40,000 in debt, $400 a month payment! You’re paying what that’s $5,000 a year now that you’re putting towards student debt for the next 20, 30, 40 years of your life. That’s stupid. It’s just dumb.
If you want to start a business if you want to go out there and be an
entrepreneur, go do it. Don’t take that money and spend it on things that are going to further your education. There’s not a single thing that I learned in college, that I’ve applied in business today. Now granted, I’m going to be transparent. I didn’t finish college, I went through I think three classes, four classes.
But none of my professors even were in business, I took that money, and I bought a $1,000 course that you’ll be $100,000 or more. And I went and bought into a $15,000 mastermind or coaching that led me to 10s of thousands of dollars. And I continued to reinvest my money.
Now, I want to be very, very clear, I am not bashing education I’m bashing the college system, not education. Education is the single most important thing when it comes to furthering yourself. You’ve got to invest in education, you’ve got to continue to invest in yourself, mentors, books, courses, training, but by the people that are actually doing it that are actually in the industry that you want to learn.
I’m not bashing math, I’m not bashing science. I’m not bashing writing I’m not bashing accounting. I’m not bashing the things that they teach you in college, I am bashing the way that they present it and how they teach it. This stuff is so outdated.
Math is important accounting is important. Writing is important. But learn it for the skill that you want. Because how you write for journalism, is much different than you write for sales copy. And that’s much different than you write for if you’re teaching sixth graders. And it’s much different than you do right if you’re working for a big corporation. Learn in the skill set that you actually want to go into
Any of you don’t know what you want to do yet. Go try new things. I am super duper anti-college if you’re paying for it. If you’re a lucky one, your parents are paying for it. Well, this is my advice, if your parents are like, ‘yeah, I am going to pay for your college.’ I’d be like, ‘yo, Mom and Dad, I just have to check so I can go out and spend the money how I want.’ And if they say no, they’ll only give you the money if you’re going to college, then fine.
Then that’s a whole different story! Then go you know, as Gary Vaynerchuk would say, “then go and take you four-year vacation, bro.” I’m not bashing it entirely. But I would go, and I would take that college degree or that college money. I would go get a college degree and learn about things that maybe aren’t talked about a whole lot in the modern day.
You know, society, maybe I would learn a lot more like thought process things. Like to expand your mind. I definitely wouldn’t learn a skill I wouldn’t learn marketing from college.
Like if professors actually knew marketing, they wouldn’t be a professor if a professor actually knew how to build a business a real business not like oh, I I went and I you know, I was a marketing director for, you know, two years or whatever, at some firm.
If you’re never good at marketing, they would be paid way more to go do something else. There are very few professors that are like have made their millions and now are coming back. And if you get lucky and get that great, but I’m talking about the average rule here.
So if I get my college paid for. I’m going to go in, and I’m going to I’m going to go try to learn something that I can’t go to learn in the public world. Like don’t learn philosophy, right? Go learn like stuff like that, not skill sets that you can learn in the real world.
I just don’t understand why people are so… I just listed off the biggest company in the world and 13 other billion-dollar companies that don’t require college degrees anymore, and people still think that college is the answer. If the professor it’s a profession that you want to go into, requires a college degree, then go get a college degree.
If it’s a profession, that is b.s. that requires a college degree, for example, if you have to be a teacher, and you need a degree to be a teacher, then do the cheapest degree and go learn how to teach on your own because I doubt the school systems are going to actually teach you how to teach. Look at our school system, it’s falling apart, it’s failing. Clearly, the college system is not doing very well at all. Now, if you’re going to be a lawyer, doctor, dentist, dentist, scientist, then take your education or your college experience very seriously, go to the best school get that done.
But like if you’re not required to get a college degree for what you’re doing. I do not understand. I cannot fathom why anyone would go to college. Every single thing that they teach in college is available for free on the Internet. And if you’re truly passionate about what you’re doing, if you’re doing what you love, like we talked about in the last episode, or two episodes ago, whatever it was, if you actually go out and have a strong ‘why’ you’re going to be motivated to go out and learn that. Go to Google, go to YouTube, go to the internet, find the information you need to learn, study.
You can buy courses from 1 to $5,000 that will teach you more about your skill set that any college degree will in the entire world, I’m dead serious, not every course is that way, but they’re out there they exist. I guarantee you that a Sam Ovens’ $2,000 Consulting Accelerator is more valuable than any college education on business period. Okay. Like it just is if you want to go and make money and build a business.
Okay, so for those of you that are out there that are like, do I go to college?
‘Do I not, do I do this, or not?’ If you’re trying to build a business a get into entrepreneurship, please don’t go to college it’s stupid. If your parents are paying for it, great, then go and have fun, maybe learn philosophy and thinking, how to think better those things are good.
But don’t try to learn business skills from people that have never built a business. Don’t try to learn accounting from people that have never run accounting for big huge massive corporations or, or even companies at all. Don’t try to learn you know, marketing from people that have never done marketing. I just don’t understand that logic at all.
It’s just stupid! Look at things from a realistic standpoint of where they are and look at what you want to do with your life. If your goal and dream… I’ve met a couple people that they’re goal and dream is to go to college and finish it for their own personal self. Great! Go do that I’m not bashing you. But if you’re not in love with the idea of going to college, if you’re not sitting there going, I really want to go to college, then don’t go and if you’re not sure, take a gap year.
And if you’re paying for it, my goodness be so careful about where you’re spending your money. Because 40,50,60,70,80,100, $140,000 what we say the average private schools $140,000 for tuition at a private school or public school out of state is $100,000 and in-state public school or college is $60,000 without room and board! Before you drop that kind of money on something really make sure that it’s going to get you where you want to go!
And I just don’t think college is the answer for you. Not in business, not in 80% of the jobs that are out there today. Higher education, so important!
Educating yourself on what you do so important!
Every single person should take their education seriously, every single person and educate themselves invest in themselves and work on themselves to make themselves better. But college is not education anymore, or it’s a really stupid education.
Okay, you can get, I don’t think you understand how far in business, you can go off $60,000 when you’re first starting up. That will buy a ton of Facebook ads that will buy a lot of courses, that’ll buy a lot of mentors. I mean you could literally get someone to build your business for you practically for $60,000. Around something that you actually like to do that you’re passionate about where you’re the boss where you can live on your own terms, you’ve got to come up with the money some way or another.
So if you’re going to take out a loan, at least take out a loan that you can default on. And that’s the thing we didn’t talk about. You can’t even you can’t even get rid of the student loan like you can’t file for bankruptcy. Not you should anyway. But you can’t default on the debt. You can file for bankruptcy and make them go away. But you’re stuck with them for life. Stupid. And I’m going to get a lot of especially for the older generation.
If you guys are listening to this…My parents and my parents know where I stand on this. But the people that are in their 40s 50s 60s in a college education. Please understand, I say this out of love and not out of disrespect or anything, but it’s a different world, now we don’t need a college degree to be successful.
I know probably literally hundreds for sure. Dozens and dozens Nah, definitely hundreds, hundreds of people. Never went to college and they’re killing it making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year doing what they love building real successful businesses. And I mean, like the real ones, the ones that’ll be around for a while.
The ones with standard operating procedures and going through not everybody is some people fall away by the wayside but that’s just typical, but that’s just any industry. Do what you love to do, and go find the proper education to go make that happen for you. Find the thing that’s going to work best for you. Because nine times out of 10 I don’t think College is the answer if you don’t need a degree all right.
So there it is. There’s my take on college I think college is pretty darn stupid for most people. I think college is a waste of time if you’re not paying for it and a waste of money if you’re paying for it.
If you’re not paying for it, it’s kind of up to you at that point. But I would not focus on a skill I’d focus on like learning how to learn a big topic philosophy type stuff or maybe some things that you’re not actually going to do in life, but you will learn about because you find them interesting.
Maybe you really like science but don’t want to use it to build your business. Go learn about science, human anatomy stuff like that health and wellness maybe, even that’s so outdated now.
College is just so slow it’s behind and I didn’t even go into all the theories about how college just is like is a place where rich people store money and aggghh, oh so bad.
Okay, I’m done. That’s my thought processes, this is a rant sesh podcast episode, I tell you what, if you disagree with me, I’d love to hear your thoughts. You agree with me? I’d love to hear your thoughts.
Please, please, please, please, please if you’re between the age of 20 and 28, and you’re thinking about going to college or have started college or thinking about dropping out, or you know around that stage of maybe have a kid that’s going to college or thinking about going to college.
Don’t just jump in, it’s s a big decision and really stop and to think and go.
‘So is this really the best thing for me.’ Because most of the time it’s not, alright. If you did go to college, it’s not the end of the world. I feel for you. And you have 30,40,50,60, $70,000 in college debt.
And I don’t, and I’m crushing it living life. But there are so many people that are crushing and living life and have the ability and freedom to.
But you can’t because you’re paying 4,5,6 hundred dollars a month that you don’t have to that because your degree doesn’t get you paid anymore.
But the point is, education is important. College is now no longer the best form of education. In fact, I think it is pretty low on the totem pole for education, right? Alright guys, as always, hustle-hustle, God bless. Don’t be afraid to think different, those that think different are going to change the world.
And hopefully, and I am going to say this in complete honesty I’d love to see the college system, the whole college whatever you would like to call it, empire, or dictatorship almost, this whole college thought process just crumble and get back to a few colleges that actually teach good skills.
We need a radical transformation in the education industry, and college is not solving the solutions like it used to.
Much love as always, I love you all, and I will see you on the next episode. Take it easy Fam. Peace.