Think Different Theory

Finding Training on Your Business (Part 2)


In this episode, I’m going to delve deeper into the high-profit margin, low startup cost businesses, which include coaching, consulting and service-based businesses. I’m going to tackle the issues that people who start such businesses have with training, coaching, and mentorship, because most of those people don’t know how to choose the best training, coaching or mentorship for themselves based on the type of business they want to start.


I’m going to talk about the various business structures that exist within that business category, so you can be more well-equipped when building out your business.

Here are the key topics discussed in this episode:

  • Coaching, consulting and service-based businesses  (05:37)
  • Determining what route to go down (06:40)
  • Pick a thing, stick with it, and go make some money with it  (08:11)
  • Shiny Person Syndrome (08:38)
  • The coaching consulting world (13:18)
  • Business structures and models (15:33)
  • Don’t buy a course about a business that you don’t wanna build (17:04)


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May 8, 2019


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00:00          Oh, that coaching program that you bought into you didn’t get you the result that you were looking for? Huh, maybe it’s not because it was a bad coaching program, and maybe quite possibly, it’s not even because you didn’t do the work, you might have done the work, and the coaching program might’ve been great. Maybe the reason that you’re not happy with that is that the coaching program was designed to…

00:26          You are now entering a new paradigm.

00:29          So, here’s my issue. I wanted to find the answers to life’s biggest questions. Things like, how do I become happy and live with purpose? How do I make more money doing what I love, and what does it mean to be truly successful in all areas of life? My name is Josh Forti, @JoshForti on Instagram, and I ask life’s biggest questions and share the answers with you. My goal is to help you find purpose, happiness, and open your mind to new realms of possibility by helping you think differently about everything you do, know, and understand. On this podcast, we think different, we dream bigger, and we live in a world without limits. This is a new paradigm. Welcome to The Think Different Theory.

01:11          What’s going on guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Think Different Theory. My name is Josh Forti and we’re on episode number 61, part two of our kind of two-day… or I guess not even two-day, two-episode series of the two different categories of businesses, or the two different types… or I guess we talked about categories. Just businesses in general. It’s business week here on The Think Different Theory and we’re getting ready, and preparing for the next episode, which is the first ever podcast interview on The Think Different Theory with… any guest ever. And, it’s with a guy named Taylor Welch, who’s just awesome. The interview was so awesome and I raved about it in the last… last episode too, but you’ve got to prepare yourself for this. Dropping on Friday… prepare yourself. It’s a great interview and I can’t wait for you guys to hear it.

02:04          But that being said, we are… we’re preparing for that, part two today of the last episode. So, in the last episode, we kind of talked about the two different categories of businesses that we have. Right? And we talked about how there are High Profit Margin, Low Startup Cost businesses. These are your coaching, consulting, and service based businesses for the sake of the conversation. And then there’s the second category of business, which are for the sake of the conversation, product based businesses or software based businesses, physical product based or software based businesses. Right? And, we talked about how in the coaching business and consulting and high ticket service provider, it doesn’t cost a whole lot to get started. You can make a ton of money, high profit margin, but it’s really hard/impossible to scale past a certain level, and how it’s not as really a sellable asset because you’re selling you, and you are not a slave, so you would not sell yourself. Right?

02:55          And then we talked about how in category number two, while it takes a lot of money to get started and your profit margins aren’t all that great, once it becomes a profitable business, you’re not selling your time, and you’re not selling your knowledge, you’re selling an actual product. So it’s really easy to scale, you’ll make a ton of money, and you can make a lot of money when you sell it. You can have that… that nine-figure, or you know, at least eight-figure check, when someone buys that company from you. So, we’ve talked about the two different types of businesses there. Now, I do not have a lot of experience in the second category of businesses. I have owned a software company, but it was a startup and I ended up selling it before it really, really, you know, ever took off.

03:31          I think we had like 8,000 or 9,000 users, or something on the platform. So nothing too crazy. I don’t really have a lot of experience speaking there. However, I want to focus down in category number one because I believe that that’s where most of my audience is right now. It’s where I am, it’s where a lot of my students have been, a lot of my clients have been, and where I think a lot of people starting out need to focus on, but where so many people mess up, where so many people don’t understand it, and they don’t understand why they’re not seeing results, especially when it comes to learning about it, or getting coaching consulting from somebody else about that type of business that they’re trying to start. And, this episode is inspired by and actually I gotta give a shout out to Alex Engar.

04:15          Alex, if you’re listening man, which I know you’re a loyal listener, so I appreciate you. Alex Engar is… Alex and I have an interesting relationship. I want to get him on for an interview because he’s just an… he’s a normal dude, and is just crushing it. And I think a lot of us can learn a lot of good life lessons from Alex. He’s a great dude. Anyway, he’s a friend of mine now, a student of mine, and that in… turned friend. And, we were chatting the other day. We hadn’t caught up in a while and he has a successful business now, but we were talking about the problems and the struggles that people go through when they buy coaching and consulting. I was talking to him about what I’ve learned through this and he goes, “Dude, you’ve got to do a podcast episode on this. This would help so many people out.”

04:52          And, I was like, “Alright. Say no more. If you… you’re someone that I’ve helped out a lot, and that… you’ve taught me a lot as well.” He has. And so, a big shout out to him. My man, appreciate you. But, let’s dive into the content here with this, because most people that are in this coaching consulting, service-based industry, the… let me back up. The reason that I did the first podcast was to explain… the first podcast episode like two days ago on Monday, was to explain that there are different types of businesses and different… like whole different categories of businesses. Not just like industry, not like, oh the fitness industry and the movie industry. Like no, like actual categories and the actual structure of a business. And I’m learning a lot about business structure and you know, how to scale businesses fast and different types and all that jazz.

05:37          But I think it was really important to understand that there are different categories of business when we dive into this. So now we’re in category number one, which if you didn’t listen to the last podcast, go back and listen to it. We’re talking about consulting, coaching, service-based businesses. This would also like fall under the category of courses, digital products and things of that nature. Something that is not a physical product business and not a software business. Okay? So within that category, there are different models of businesses. Some of them are extremely hands-on, very high ticket businesses. Some of them are… high ticket businesses where they have a lot of personalized attention, but it’s not directly coming from you. So this would be like if you hired coaches underneath you to like serving your customers. And then there’s the other end of the spectrum, which are kind of like the… the category two businesses where they are more scalable, or the most scalable version of the coaching consulting business.

06:40          And a lot of this is like course type stuff, but… but it’s not an actual physical product yet. And so there are different types of models within it. And so, here’s what happens. Right? Now I’m not here so much in this episode to talk about the different types of models that are within it, but I’m here to talk more about how to help you determine what route you should go down, and how to learn and pick a mentor for that. Alright? Because I’m a huge believer that anyone can start a business, without a question, especially this type of business. And I’m also a huge believer that once you get started in business, you better have a coach or a mentor of some sort. I always have. And the only times when I haven’t, my my life was… and my business was basically falling apart. Right?

07:29          Like, you got to have coaches. And I’ve spent so much money on coaches, and consultants, and mentors for myself, and I highly recommend it for you guys as well. So these people, they go out in there and look, and they go, “Okay, Josh”, and this is a question I get asked a lot, “What course do you recommend? Who’s coaching program do you recommend? Who should I follow? Who should I buy into? What do you recommend?” And it’s a hard question because, quite frankly, the answer is whatever one is best for you. And what I see a lot of people do, and I think Alex, going back to our conversation here, I think he coined it perfectly. He’s like, “Josh, for me…”, and Alex, I hope I have your permission to sell this story. He’s like, “Josh. For me, it wasn’t so much shiny object syndrome with the different types of things that I was doing. Like, I knew what I wanted to do.”

08:11          So most people, in their business, they go and they don’t… they don’t even know what they want to do. And they’re like, “Oh my gosh, chatbots. Oh my gosh, funnels. Oh my gosh, Facebook ads. Oh my gosh, this, that, yeah, yeah. websites….” And they never get anywhere in business. Right? So, don’t be that person. Pick one thing and stick with it and go make some money with it. So now you’re at this point where you’re making five grand a month, 10 grand a month, maybe even 15,000 a month, and you want to scale. Right? You want to go and you want to get to 25,000, or 30,000, or 50,000 a month. Right? You want to scale up. So you get a coach, you get a mentor, you buy into a new coaching program.

08:38          This is the logical next answer. And so, he’s like, “For me, Josh. I got past the Shiny Object Syndrome. I knew that I needed a coach. I knew what I was doing and where I wanted to go, and I knew I needed to coach to get there. What I had was shiny person syndrome”, and he’s like, “Well, I would go and I’d be like, oh, Russell Brunson’s got a coaching program. Better check his out. Oh, Sam Ovens. He… he’s pretty cool. I got to check him out. Taylor Welch, I got to check him out. Right? I got to go over here to… you know, all these different people. I got to check him out, you know, oh, Rachel Peterson, I gotta check her out. Oh, this person, I got to check him out.” Or, you know what I mean? So like, all these different places where you’re going and not so much looking at the courses themselves, you’re just looking at the people and kind of like which one you relate to best.

09:27          And I was like, “Dude, this is a common issue. Like a hundred percent for sure. You want to like go and… and be with the person that you relate to best, and their personality, and their work ethic, and yada, yada, yada.” I said, “Well, here’s the problem with that man.” I said, “You’ve got to understand that just because a person has a successful business in roughly the same world that you do, does not mean they’re coaching program is a good fit for you, or that you will even go and have success in that style of business.” He’s like, “Whoa, like, what do you mean?” Here’s the thing, I want you to think about the… the coaching course world right now. This is a pretty popular thing in my world, and for a lot of you that are just getting into like the Internet marketing world, and… you know, coming into the business. This coaching and expert-based businesses is pretty popular. Right?

10:18          So you’ve got… you’ve got… courses where you can have a course focus. And then you’ve got coaching or you could have a coaching focus. And your… your main revenue maybe could come from a high ticket, $10,000 coaching program and you really, really want to focus down on this heavy. Right? And courses are like, part of that program, and they’re kind of like secondary revenue to you. If somebody can’t or doesn’t qualify for your $10,000 program, great, then you’re going to down sell them to maybe a course. Right? But on the flip side of that, then you’ve got people that are course heavy, that are like, “Man, I’m going to sell this $9.97 course, and you know, everybody’s got to go through that. And then, for the people that go through that $9.97, then I might upsell them to my higher ticket program.”

10:58          Right? And then, even within that, there are people that are like, “Man, I want to be really, really hands on.” And they sell themselves really, really hard as part of the business. Right? And then there are others that are more removed from that process, in both of those scenarios. And so, I kind of want to paint a picture of four dudes, and this might get a little confusing, so hopefully, it doesn’t. It’s much easier when there are visuals, but just picture with me here. Right? Dude number one. He has both a course and a coaching program. He is course heavy, highly removed, and even his coaching… he’s not that like involved with. Okay? Course focus primarily. The second dude is course focused. Right? So just like the first guy, but he’s very involved. Very involved in the… the… the Q&As, very involved in helping his students, very involved in his coaching program.

11:47          He’s got… you know, he’s got them both, and he’s very, very involved in the entire process every step of the way. Very intimate. The guy in the right, or the second dude, he’s there for price. He wants to charge a lot of money. He wants to be very detailed, and very involved in that process, and really cares about his students, and his clients a lot. The first dude is there for scale. It’s not that he doesn’t care about it, but he wants to be removed from the process, and he just wants to scale, scale, scale. He’s going for mass, he’s not going for intimacy, and he’s not going for personalized human connection. Then the third person is high ticket course focused. Right? So it’s 5 or $10,000 programs. 5 or $10,000 programs. And, courses are basically like, just kind of there, because they need to be part of the coaching program, and to down sell anybody that can’t afford his coaching program.

12:31          And, he is removed from the process, not very involved, and hires a bunch of people to come in and kind of manage the… the… the coaching program for him. And then the fourth type of person, is the coaching program focused, high ticket, very, very involved, not removed from the process at all, has a team to support him, but like is there in the trenches really, really cares about it. Person number four is going to charge a lot more money, going to be very, very involved. Not that scalable, but he can still make a lot of money. Person number three is going to make a lot of money, but he’s going to have high costs because he’s got all these people that he’s hiring, and he’s in this for coaching at scale. Right? So there’s like four different types of businesses within the… how do I say this?

13:18          Like, within that model of business. Within the coaching consulting world, they have the exact same type of product, but it’s built four different ways. And so, what I see a lot of people do, is they go and they find a coach and they’re like, “Man, I want to be really, really like… like just intimate with my students. I really want to go and I just want to spend so much time with them, and I wanna be able to charge $10,000 for my services, and I want to get 10 clients, and I want to take… you know, work with them for six months, and I’m going to make $200,000, $250,000 a year. I’m just going to love it. Right? And I’m gonna have some courses on the backend for some extra revenue, but I’m just really, really involved in that.” And then they go out and hire someone who says, “Hey, I coach coaches and consultants”, and they go, “Join his program”, but he’s designed his business to remove himself from the process, and not teach you how to do any of that, but just to sell a bunch more product.

14:09          And so, maybe you join that coaching program and it didn’t work for you. Not Because the coaching program didn’t work. Not because you didn’t work, but because you joined a program that wasn’t designed to do what you wanted it to do. And I hope that wasn’t confusing. Right? Because this is a really, really important concept, and this was something that was so crucial for me to understand. So, I want to tell you like, more of a personal story, to show you this in like in real life. So for me, I love the Click Funnels community. Right? Russell Brunson is a man that I respect so much, and I have nothing but respect for the guy. He’s awesome. But, I was looking for a coaching program to join.

14:49          I wanted to join someone’s mastermind. It was more of a mastermind, you know, thing. And I looked around at the different ones, and I was like, “Okay, who’s got them?” And I made a list. I was like, “Well, Dan Henry’s got one, and Russell Brunson’s got one, and Sam Ovens has got one, and Taylor Welch has got one, and you know, Rachel Peterson’s got one”, and like, you know, alright, they’re all more or less the same price. I mean, not… but like, they’re all high ticket. And I’m like, “Well, they all have masterminds. They all say that you get, you know, time with them”, whatever that thing is, but who has like what I want? Who’s building a business like I want to build? And so I looked around, and I went, “Russell.” I love Russell and I love the people of Click Funnels community, but I’m not going to join inner circle, because that’s not really the type of business that I wanted to build.

15:34          Right? I wanted to have a different structure and a different model in my business, and so I went and I looked around and the person that not only resonated with me the most, but it had the type of business that I wanted to build was, Sam ovens. So what did we do? We went and joined Sam Ovens, because I wanted to build a business where, guess what? We’ve got an agency, we master it, we get it to seven figures, it’s cranking, and then we scale massively with courses. I don’t want to spend a whole ton of time in the course itself longterm. Like right at the beginning when we’re building it out, we’re gonna spend a ton of time in there. Right? But I want to get it right and I want to be able to automate it, so it’s so freaking complete, that you have everything that you need, and then all you have to do is just sit on Q&A calls with me.

16:16          And that was the exact model that Sam Ovens had. And I was like, this dude has built the business…, the exact type of business that I want. Yes, his lifestyle is a little bit crazy, but he has the business that I want. So I went boom, that’s the one. Got on a call with him. Confirmed all the details, signed up. Guess what? My business has been thriving since I went in there and started applying the type of content that he teaches. Why? Because I have that type of business and he’s teaching that type of business. Now, not to say that other people’s masterminds don’t teach about courses, and agency work, and all that jazz. Other people’s masterminds did, but they weren’t the type that I wanted. And so, I went and I did that. And so I have found in talking to a lot of people, oftentimes I’ll talk to one person, and they’ll be like, “Eeh, the mastermind wasn’t that great.”

17:04          Paid twenty thousand,   thousand dollars for something, wasn’t that great. Or 5,000, you know, for something. Wasn’t that great. And I go, “Oh, that’s interesting.” And then, a month later or a week later, I’ll talk to someone else, and they’re like, “Dude, it was amazing. Best mastermind program ever. Best coaching program ever.” And I’m like, “That’s crazy. That’s awesome. Someone else just said something kind of different than that though.” And I looked at him and I was like, “Oh, well that’s because the person that loved it, had that type of business. The person that didn’t, didn’t.” Don’t buy a course… and this is true at all levels guys, like all of them. Don’t buy a course from something that you don’t want to build. If you look at that person’s business, and look at the results that that course is getting, and look, you know, look at what it’s designed for, and that’s not what you want to do, don’t buy it.

17:42          It’d be like, starting an eCommerce store, and being like, “Okay, I am going to start an eCommerce store, and I need to learn how to run Facebook ads to my eCommerce store. And then going out and buying a Facebook ads program, that talks about how to run Facebook ads to get clients. That stupid like, yes, it teaches you Facebook ads, but it doesn’t teach you Facebook ads for eCommerce. It teaches you Facebook ads for client acquisition. Why would you do that? You know, as the same thing is true when you’re getting advice for some people, and this is also true and I think this is a super important, this is also true for free advice. There might be people that put out great content, there might be people that are entertaining, there might be people out there that are just like, you know, that you really like, but if they’re not teaching you stuff about what you’re trying to do in your business or in your life, which is great life advice too.

18:30          Don’t follow them. You know, I follow… I know, it’s like four or five people on Instagram. Why? Because of the only people that put out content really related to what I want to do. I follow… in fact I’m pulling it up right here, right now. I follow Russell Brunson, because he’s played such an impact on my life, and I just… I love the dude, and I’ve learned so much about marketing from him. Sam Ovens because obviously, I just told you everything why. My girlfriend and Logan Paul, because honestly, let’s be real. Logan Paul is like my favorite person… or my favorite… favorite celebrity ever. Anybody… if anybody has a connection to Logan Paul, I will love you forever if you introduce me, like seriously, I will owe you the biggest thing in the world. Okay, a little sidetrack note there, but I’m serious guys. Having that like, understanding of getting the information that you need and applying it to your business, and only following through on that, is gonna completely change your life.

19:16          And I was the guy that went out and bought… Guys, I have bought courses. I have Rachel Peterson’s courses. I have Dan Henry’s courses. I have Russell Brunson’s courses. I have Sam Oven’s courses. I have Scott Oldford’s courses. I’ve got Dan.. like, I don’t know if I said Dan Henry. I’ve got so many stupid courses, on everything you could possibly think of. And guess what? The ones that I had results with, were the ones that I just went and did. And guess what? The ones that I learned the most from, were the ones that taught the business that I wanted to go and create. And so, that’s why it’s so important to consume the right content and really get clear, not so much… because here’s what happens, at least with me, I found myself going and when I would compare… like, I would compare courses, and I’d be like, “Well, does that person live the lifestyle that I want? Does that person have the personality that I want?”

20:06          See, here’s the thing. There is a time when like lifestyle and like things like that matter. But when it comes to like actual business structure, like a mastermind, right? I still look at someone’s morals. If they’re an unethical person, I just won’t buy from them. But above and beyond that, if they choose to work all the time, I don’t really care. That’s their deal. Like I’m not going to become a Sam Ovens, even though he tells you just focus, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus, and you know, work 12 hours a day, six days a week. I’m not going to become that person, but I know that his teaching about business is solid. So don’t compare yourself to a lifestyle. Don’t compare yourself to how somebody else acts, and don’t make your decisions based off of that.

20:47          Make your decisions based off of the type of business that they’re running, or apply this to life, whatever it is that they’re doing, like really look at the results that they’re getting from what they’re teaching, and base their teaching off of… or base your decisions off of their teaching, and what it is that you’re actually buying into. I think that’s super important because I know I got wrapped up in like, “Oh, well I don’t want to be like that person, because I’m not gonna buy into them, when their business teaching was super solid, or I would buy something because the person was cool and the teaching was actually really crappy.” Makes Sense. Alright, guys. That’s it. That’s part two of our two-part series on business categories and business types. Like I said in the first episode, shout out to Alex Becker for the last episode… the demonstration, the two categories.

21:34          Really helpful YouTube video there, like I said, that… I saw from him while I was researching it. And shout out to Alex Engar for prompting this episode, and really these two-part series here, and allow me to come on here and explain that for it. So, thank you, both of you guys. I appreciate you and hope this helped. If this helped, if this brought some clarity for you, please do me a favor and pull out your phone, go on Instagram and just shoot me a quick DM. Like, “Josh, found a lot of clarity in episode 60 or 61, right? Or that made a lot of sense. It was explained in a way I hadn’t thought of it before”, but just something, if it did. If it didn’t, great, no big deal, but if it did, let me know on Instagram @JoshForti, we’d love to hear from you and just get that feedback there.

22:12          Alright. Don’t forget. Next episode. Episode number 62; Mr. Taylor Welch. What did I use to call him, the man, the myth, the Nashville legend. And he’s like, “I’m a man of the people.” He’s a great dude guys. And you’re… you’re really going to love the interview. So as always, hustle, hustle, God bless. Do not be afraid to think different, because those of us that think different are going to be the ones that change the world. And I actually legitimately believe that. I love you all and I will see you on the next podcast episode. Take it easy fam. Peace.

22:46          Yo, what’s up guys? You’ve been listening to The Think Different Theory with myself, Josh Forti, which I like to call, “A new paradigm of thinking”, and real quick, I got a question for you. Did you like this episode? If you did, I want to ask a huge favor. See, the biggest thing that helps this podcast grow, and that will spread this message of positivity and making the world a better place, is if you leave a review, a rating and subscribe to the podcast. What that does is, it basically tells the platforms that this is out on, that you like my stuff, and that I’m doing something right. So if you could take like three seconds out of your day and subscribe, leave a rating, and a review, I would be forever grateful for you. Also, I want to hear from you. I want to know your feedback, your ideas, and your questions for future episodes. So be sure to hit me up on Instagram in the DM @JoshForti or via email