Think Different Theory

What it Takes to Build a Real Personal Brand


In this episode, I welcome Case Kenny, the host of an iTunes Top 100 Podcast called “New Mindset, Who Dis” that got over 1,000,000 downloads in the first 8 months and the founder of the twice-weekly email “PRSUIT” that has over 200,000 daily readers. Case is one of the most brilliant minds I know when it comes to building a truly authentic personal brand around YOU.


Case comes on to talk about

  • Being authentically you
  • Having a JOB and being successful
  • Having perspective
  • Life stories
  • Personal branding
  • Overcoming mindset failures, and more!

Get ready for some life changing inspiration.

Here are the key topics discussed in this episode:

  • Focus helps in being more happier and effective (02:41)
  • Doing it all and always hungry (07:37)
  • Bringing an entirely new perspective to the people that have jobs (10:51)
  • The power of just stating your opinion (14:50)
  • How life experiences shape Case’s content creation (17:54)
  • Being yourself a lot louder (23:54)
  • Creating your own commerce platform (27:41)
  • Obsessed with new age distribution (33:01)
  • Building his huge email list and growing the podcast (35:59)
  • The application of gratitude works all the time (44:04)
  • The world belongs to those with perspective (49:30)
  • Believing in a more morals and value-based system (54:10)
  • Focusing on your blessings instead of your burdens (01:02:53)


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July 31st, 2019


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Disclaimer:    The Transcript Is Auto-Generated And May Contain Spelling And Grammar Errors

00:00:00 This is the topic I want to talk about. Let me turn the pages in my life, and find examples from which I can draw. If I can’t find those examples, I’m going to do a different topic. And that kind of forces me to always be real and always find something in my life to draw from. So that’s the simple answer. Okay.

00:00:18 You are now entering a new paradigm. So, here’s my issue. I wanted to find the answers to life’s biggest questions. Things like, how do I become happy and live with purpose? How do I make more money doing what I love, and what does it mean to be truly successful in all areas of life? My name is Josh Forti, @JoshForti on Instagram, and I ask life’s biggest questions and share the answers with you. My goal is to help you find purpose, happiness, and open your mind to new realms of possibility by helping you think differently about everything you do, know, and understand. On this podcast, we think different, we dream bigger, and we live in a world without limits. This is a new paradigm. Welcome to The Think Different Theory.

00:01:03 What’s up guys. Welcome back to another episode of The Think Different Theory. My name is Josh Forti and, Oh guys, oh my gosh. I’m so excited for this interview. I’ve known our next guest for… it’s been like a year and half, I feel like, maybe even two years now, since I knew about you. Turned out to be a pretty good friend of mine. We almost… well we kind of did something together. We almost did, but this is someone that I am so looking forward to bringing on the podcast, because he is not only an awesome dude, he has his own podcast, his own email list. It’s amazing. It’s awesome. It blows up and he targets… actually I’m not even gonna… I’m not going to ruin it. I’m gonna let him get into it, but he’s a very good friend of mine, and someone that is just killing it in the podcast game, has hundreds of thousands, I think even over a million downloads now. Yes Case.

00:01:48 Yes sir. Well…

00:01:48 Yeah, a couple of million downloads now, top 100 iTunes or podcast on iTunes. I’m so excited to bring this guy on to talk all about mindset, talk about… really the new wave that’s going on, I feel like in… in culture today, and just dive into some cool stuff. Case, welcome my man, to Think Different Theory. Thanks for coming on.

00:02:10 Thank you, man. I’m excited to be here. Yeah, it means… it means a lot for you to invite me on, and yeah, actually, I think, yeah, maybe two years, three years, we first met when you came to Chicago, and that was at least two years ago. So yeah, I’m trying to put it together, but yeah, we’ve known each other for a while now.

00:02:25 It’s been a minute. Yeah. And Dude, you have a sick place up in Chicago. Are you still in the same… same apartment, that was… I always came to?

00:02:32 I am, yeah. Right down on the river, if that was where you were?

00:02:35 Yeah. Down, all the way up.

00:02:37 Yup.

00:02:37 Nothing can stop me. I’m all the way up. That’s awesome. How have you been?

00:02:41 I’m good. Really good. Yeah, things are… things are good, man. I think I have done a lot over the past year to kind of simplify my life, cause I do a lot of different things, and I like it that way, but I realized that, you know, a lot of focus really helps you be happier and more effective. So I’ve done a lot over the past couple years really just narrowing my focus. Yeah. Things are really good, man. I’m digging the podcast. Really found my footing in my writing, and my business, and everything’s good man. Really, really good.

00:03:10 That’s awesome dude. I’m so happy to hear that too, because you have… you had a lot going on. And, I remember you telling me that you kind of like doing multiple things at once. You’ve got a podcast now that’s top 100 on iTunes, right?

00:03:22 Yes. Yeah, “New Mindset. Who Dis”, yeah.

00:03:27 New Mindset, Who Dis”

00:03:28 Over a year ago, yeah. New Mindset, Who Dis.

00:03:30 Dude, that’s awesome. I love that podcast by the way. Huge inspiration for this podcast here. It was one of like three podcasts that I listened to before I started my own. So, that’s awesome. But, when you started though, back when we were doing stuff together, you were in a job still too, right? By choice, right? Are you still in there?

00:03:49 I am still in it. Yeah. So I mean I still do a lot of things. Um, but within that, on there done. Yeah. So I mean I still, I still work a job in Chicago, which people are like, that’s insane. Case like you’ve got this and then you’ve got a huge following here and there. Uh, but I still work this job. I run a sales team for an advertising technology company downtown Chicago. Um, and I, I do it for a variety of different reasons, but like I, I’m a very pragmatic, realistic person. Like I am all for the people that are like, Yo, you need to go all in. You need to chase your passion and purpose. Do it. I’m all for those. I’m all, I support that. I really do. I guess for me, my outlook is that of have a bit of pragmatism.

00:04:28 It’s like, I like certain things. I like nice apartments. I like my watches. I like going on trips. I like having money, whatever call it it is and hello, I’ve created a lifestyle that affords me to check that box while also being incredibly fulfilled with my writing and my podcast thing and it just works together. Um, it is a very lucky scenario for me. It’s, I think I am unique in the way that I’ve managed to work at this company and then support me with what I do. But like, it’s worked really well for me. I don’t think I’ll do it forever per se. It just won’t make sense at a certain point. But, but like I work my job, I love, I still learn so much there that pours back into my business and my podcast and vice versa. Like it’s like this, everything is helping everything. So I still do it man. Um, and, and sometimes it gets a little stressful. You’ve got all these different responsibilities. Sometimes I lose track of what I’m supposed to be doing, but for me it just, it blends into my thinking of always, always be learning. And until the day when the day job isn’t helping me with my other activities and responsibilities, then you know, then I’ll stop. But until then, like I’m just freaking leveling up every single day. So, so I do it. Um, and it’s a lot of fun, man. That just works.

00:05:39 Dude, I love everything about this and I am very excited for this conversation, this kind of interview because I think that we jive on the same, uh, the same things a lot. But before we dive too far into this and like really get off on tangents, let’s just really quick back up. Tell people who you are and like your age, what you do, the, you have new mindset, who you have pursuit. Like, give us a quick recap of just where you’re at in life right now. What, what people know or should know about you before we really dive into learning

00:06:08 for sure. Yeah, that’s, it’s pretty simple. I’ll do it. Assemble. Yeah. I’m, I’m case Kenny. I live in Chicago. I’m 31. Um, I have the podcast very passionate about that. I do it twice a week. It is in the iTunes top, which is incredible, well over a million downloads in the first eight months. Um, I do it twice a week. And I, you know, I just talk about, um, mindset in a very real way, um, in a very, in a way that it makes sense for me. I call myself a dude, bro Guy because I’m not a scientist. I’m not a academic, I’m not a philosopher. Um, but I like to think and I like to think in real ways, ways that make sense so that, that’s the podcast I do that. Um, people love it. I’ve, I’m just incredibly humbled by that. Um, and I also write, so I write on my other company you mentioned is called PRSUIT.

00:06:55 Uit. Uh, it’s a daily email newsletter focused on similar things as the podcast, self development, self help, self development, mindfulness, whatever you want to call it. Um, and that, um, that has, you know, close to 217,000 daily subscribers on it. Think of it like the Skimm. If people are listening, they’re familiar with the skim or the morning brew or any of those things. Like that. Those are daily emails, right? And they’re those, they’re focused on news. This is just focused on a first person point of view from myself trying to help my subscribers. So I do that between those two. Um, and then the other thing is I do work a day job. It is an advertising technology. So all in all, when you consider all those things, I’m a writer, I’m a podcast or a, and I’m a salesperson I suppose. But you put those together.

00:07:37 It’s, I’m a, I’m a content creator and I’m an entrepreneur. That’s what it is at its core. So like I, you know, I’m very much a marketer. I’ve been doing funnels and social media executions and it’s just strategic elements for the last 10 years. And I think that’s really helped me get to where I am right now because I understand to an extent what it takes to get my message out there. It takes to grow. So I’m not just creating content, creating content, creating content, I’m doing it with passion, but then I’m telling people about it and it’s spreading and it’s doing well. So like that’s kind of where I am now in my life, single 31 in Chicago. Um, just really fulfilled by all of these things that I’m doing. Uh, I have a long list of things that I want to accomplish, but right now, man, doing the podcast, writing, continuing to work, this job, I’ve got a big launch I’m doing coming up in the next three months. Like it’s all, it’s all really good. It’s really cool to see like all of my skills come together to be live and just impactful. So really happy. I’m generally a happy guy, you know? Yeah.

00:08:36 That’s what I mean, dude. I mean, you say you have a long list, the things to accomplish in your life and knowing you, I’m sure you do. But I mean, dude, you’ve, you’ve done some stuff that’s awesome man.

00:08:47 For sure. Yeah. And I’m, uh, yeah, I’ve, I’ve Kinda got a mentality where I’m always hungry, always hungry ever. But yeah, I’ve definitely done some, some great things and a, I’m very humbled by that. I’m grateful. I bet. I mean, you know, I got here by, you know, I kinda forced my way here. Like I, when I first moved to Chicago, it’s like I didn’t have any of these things, wasn’t writing, wasn’t podcasting. I was working at an ad agency. I was making less than 30 grand a year. I was like, oh, maybe I’ll go to law school in Chicago. Yeah. So you try to make broke, try to make 30 grand a year and you live in rents like 1600 a it’s try it. Good luck with that. So every penny goes to rent, which is insane.

00:09:29 What brought you to Chicago? Did?

00:09:31 Uh, I went to Notre Dame, which is in Indiana. It’s close by. It’s basically the nearest big city. Um, my parents are from here, so it was, they don’t live here anymore, but it was, you know, a lot of opportunity here certainly. And just give them the Notre Dame connection. I was like, oh, I’ll find a job in Chicago. So I did a write up right off, right when I graduated.

00:09:49 One of the things that I love about you too with your podcast and with your daily email, cause you know, I’m subscribed to that as well, um, is I think you really do a good job relating to your subscribers and your listeners to the podcast and to the email because, you know, like entrepreneurship is kind of, I feel like right now it’s kind of like a sexy trend, right? Like people don’t actually know what it means to be an entrepreneur. Most people, most people think that it’s like, you know, Lamborghinis on the beach and, uh, you know, have the passive income pour in. Right? Um, but that’s not like true entrepreneurship and I, a lot of people is sexy and trendy is entrepreneurship is like most people still work a job. And I feel as though, because you still do work a job and, and work in that environment, have a boss deal with other people on a daily basis, have, you know, kind of that set schedule that, that also tied in with entrepreneurship allows you to kind of bring an entirely new perspective to the people that have jobs but yet still relate to them very well. Have you seen that to be true?

00:11:00 Yeah, man, I appreciate you saying that cause I’m like so adamant about being relatable in that sense. Not, I’m trying to be relatable so I could build a following, like a freaking robot. Like I literally want that and that’s all I want. So yes, very much so. I think people can relate to that. I mean, like I, I, I have a lot of great, uh, ratings and reviews on iTunes and that’s what people say that like, humbly, the reason they like my podcast is because I’m just the dude who they can relate to. I’m not case Kenny $60 million exit from a company who’s teaching you to build a brand. So, you know, it’s case Yo, he’s got, you know, he’s successful. Okay, well we’ll get that to him, but he’s still doing it. He’s not retired. He’s not sitting on a beach in Bali. Oh. And he’s got some relatable thoughts that apply to his life. Oh. And he gives examples of how this actually makes sense. He’s not reading from the latest self-help rhetoric. Like he’s actually got thoughts like that to me. That’s, that’s why I think I’ve done well to this point. Um,

00:11:59 but like I, I don’t know. I, I think, I think, I mean, I think relate-ability is, is, is everything if you’re a podcast or writer, entrepreneur or anything. But it is, it is an interesting balance because for example, the other day I was on a call with, uh, uh, a CEO of, of, of, of an airline, a very prominent airline. Um, and we were talking and he listened to my podcast and he was like, it was an older, older gentleman. He was like, can I give you some advice? I said, of course I would love your advice. And he says, you know, I really love your, your vibe, your brand, how relatable you are, but he’s like, I think you should step into your expertise. He’s like, you know so much. Why don’t you own it? Instead of telling people that, oh, I think this is such and such, tell them this is the way it is.

00:12:44 And I respected that opinion very much. I appreciated it. But like that’s not even like I, I really like, I, I, I’m, there are certain things while I’ll be like, hey man, this is the way it is. But that’s very rare and that’s like black and white situations. But for the most part I’m like, Hey, this is my perspective. This has worked for me. Take it or leave it, but here’s, here’s how I think it could help you. And that’s the end of the story. And I think that kind of mindset will take you so much further than always trying to be an expert. Always trying to be a, this is the way it is. Hear me roar. This is my advice for you. And it’s a subtle difference, right? It’s just a little bit of passiveness, a little bit of rawness attached to it, but I thought that was an interesting comment from him. But like I stand my ground, I’m stubborn. I like that.

00:13:28 No, I, and I very much agree with you on that, dude. That’s what makes you, you and Mike. I would say that you and I are similar in a lot of ways and certain areas and I think that that’s one of the areas maybe that we differ a little bit in our personality. And it’s one of the things that in the podcast I actually learned a tremendous deal about from you because my next question was going to be, and I’m sure we’ll get around to this, like how dude, how did you become so relatable because you do a freaking good job at it? I mean, I would just right before this podcast interview, I was on a call with somebody else and I mentioned that, uh, I was coming on a call with you and that we were doing this interview and he’s like, dude, oh my gosh, I love his podcast.

00:14:10 That guy is so relatable. Right? Um, and, uh, so I thought that was funny because, you know, we’re talking about this now, but I am someone that like, dude, if I’ve got an opinion, you’re going to hear it. You know what I mean? And, uh, that to me there’s definite, you know, I’m, I’m a little bit more religious I think than you are. Um, in that sense. And I also, and I don’t know, we can get into that a little bit later here and I’m also a little bit more, um, I dunno, I grew up in a household that a lot of things were black and white from my parents, like super black and white. And so for me, there’s a clear right, a clear wrong, and one of the things that I’ve learned from you is to go out there and the power of just stating your opinion rather than stating your opinion as fact and saying the take it or leave it. So how, how did you get to that point or like where did you learn how to do that or that that was going to be ultimately effective for you?

00:15:07 Yeah, man. Yeah. I love to talk about this with you. Yeah, actually, yeah, for sure. I mean for when I’m like looking around my desk right now because one of my favorite books is Ego’s the enemy by Ryan holiday. Um, and there’s a lot in there. So let me table that for a second. But to answer your question, like you talked about upbringing, like one of the biggest, my, my mom is an author is a writer and I grew up reading and writing voraciously and I would always tell her that I’m going to be, I want to be an author, I want to be a writer. And I was in, she was like, you will be, you know, later in life you will be. I was like, well, what do you mean later in life? I don’t, I’m just going to freaking sit down right now and write a masterpiece.

00:15:43 She was like, I have no doubt that you will be a great writer, but you need life experience first. She always said that you’re like great writers, great communicators are reflecting on things that they’ve heard, seen, smelled, touched field, emoted, everything. Right. She always said that, and I never really understood what that meant until somewhat recently. One of the reasons that like I didn’t start the podcast until this past year, even though I had a big following and you know, all these different things, it was like I just legitimately in my heart didn’t feel like I necessarily had the broad enough experiences or perspectives that add value. I literally in my heart I was like, I, I need to live a little bit more before I start giving advice. But that was literally the way that I saw it. And over the past four or five years, I had a lot of different things that happened in my life and I’m like, okay, you know, I, I feel like I’m ready to step into this and that to step into it and in an egotistical way, but to step into it with a foundation of things from which I can draw and talk about.

00:16:44 So that like, that’s always been my mentality. I always remember her, her advice to me in that sense. So like I think that makes me real because I really am trying to come from a place of realness and I really do come, come from that and I really despise at blanket advice. Like I hate it when people give it to me. And in turn I’m very hesitant to give it to other people. So I, when I sit back down, I want to talk about a topic. I’m like, all right, this is the topic I want to talk about. Let me turn the pages and my life and find examples from which I can draw off. I can’t find those examples. I’m going to do a different topic. Um, and that kind of forces me to, to always be real and always find something in my life to draw from. So that’s the simple answer for sure.

00:17:29 That’s the, and that’s so cool dude, because I feel like most people, they just, when they think about like starting a podcast or being relatable or whatever, they just say the first thing that pops into their mind, right? It’s like, Oh man, I find this cool. So I’m going to share with somebody else too. But they don’t actually tie it back to life experiences. How much have your life experiences, and because I know you’ve traveled a little bit, right, you’ve been to Japan, I, you know, watching Instagram stories. How much is travel and life experiences played into how you create content specifically? I mean I know you, you always try to relate it back, but like specifically like what does that look like? How is it, do you just take life experiences and talk about the stories or do you just build parts of it? How has have those experiences shaped how you create content?

00:18:20 Yeah, I think it’s two fold actually. So I’ll answer, I’ll answer that in a second. I think the, like my life experiences is the reason that I’m doing a podcast. I think if there was one thing that really inspired me to do the podcast vulnerably is I got out of a relationship like a year and a half ago with a girl I’d been dating for awhile. We lived together whole thing, boom, broke up. I was like, Whoa, wait a minute. I’m like, I dunno what I’m really doing here. Like I had so much created my identity around that relationship and when I got out of it I was like, Yo man, I, I like, I am not feeling centered or confident or purpose-driven or happy or mindful or any of those things. I was like, I need to freaking, I need to understand what I’m all about.

00:19:01 I need to communicate with myself. I need to stop pushing feelings down, all those kinds of things. So it was actually from that, I was like, I need to figure out a way to eat, to be vulnerable with myself. And I was like, Hey, gratitude journaling. Journaling didn’t do it for me. I was like, well, maybe I’ll, I’ll get something to help prompt me to get my feelings out. Right. None of that really works. I was like, all right, I’m gonna do the podcast. And that. It’s like people ask me sometimes, why did I start the podcast? And I say, oh, that’s easy. I started for myself, like I, I literally started it to help myself grow through that process of sitting down and writing out an outline and then talking for 20 minutes. It’s like, Yo, we, I’m literally talking my feelings out, right?

00:19:42 It’s like, yeah, but frigging sessions session with myself. Right? So that, that was how it started. And it’s still the same way. Like if you look at who I was as a person a year ago versus today, it’s very different. I’ve done 124 episodes tomorrow and every single one I’ve learned something about myself because again, to my point earlier, I’m pulling from my experience. I’m forcing myself to be vulnerable and I’m speaking it out loud and then I get feedback and it’s an amazing and amazing thing. Um, and but to, to answer your question directly, yeah. I mean, within that, I didn’t, not only just be talking about my feelings in dredging on like I give context, so the things I say, so that’s where I pull from my life experiences. It could be something I heard or it could be something that I lived either way. I’m just providing guardrails for what I’m saying, as opposed to, hey, you should go live your best life if you’re like, all right, that’s great hallmark moment. I was like, Oh, you should go, here’s something in my life that taught me that. That’s it. Small little thing. Right. Um, but, but yeah, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead.

00:20:45 Okay. So do you think or or are there, as you look back to your old episodes, cause you’re 124 that’s a fair amount of episodes, right? Yup. So like, do you ever look back at like episode like six or 12 or whatever it is and be like, man, that was some terrible advice.

00:21:04 Uh, I don’t think any of it’s terrible advice, but I think a lot of it was pretty unsubstantiated. I actually, it was funny you mentioned that I was going back and looking at an old outline cause I was trying to find something and I was reading it and like the points were literally what I just described, very pie in the sky do it because it’s right kind of thing. And now you look at mine, it’s like, do it because here’s what blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s, it’s much more vulnerable, much more substantiated. Like there’s merit behind it. So, yeah, I mean I’ve definitely grown a lot and sticking to the plan, it’s easy to get all track and be like, oh, I need to produce content. So a quick, a inspirational quote, boom. Right. But now, you know, I’m, I’m just very stubborn about this model of trying to keep it real.

00:21:46 I’m not perfect by, I just try, I try to try to keep it real that I’m gonna, I’m big on trademarks and whatnot. I’ve got the trademark on the podcast and a bunch of other things just to protect myself. But, uh, I’m thinking of trademarking dude bro. Guy. I called myself with dude, Bro Guy, all one word dude, bro. Guy. Cause I kind of am, I mean, I don’t know. I like to go to the club. I like flashy things. I’ll say dude. And all that’s tight and that’s lit and like that’s just who I am as a person. But I think like that kind of mentality forces me, I’m like, man, I need, I need advice. I could boil down like pretend like I’m in third grade. You need to talk to me that way.

00:22:22 Right, right. That’s all. I mean, and I liked the fact that you’re open about that because I think a lot of people in the entrepreneurship world, dude, especially, I want to single out, or I want to take away from the entrepreneurship world, sorry, the success world, right? People that are successful with money or with whatever that thing is, the flashy things that can afford to travel or do or whatever, they oftentimes have to like, hold on this image that is so much, not them or not like what they would actually be if they didn’t have those things. And like, I’ve met you, I’ve hung out with you. You’re the same dude on podcasts as you are when we’re, you know, we’re hanging out and just chilling. Right? And I think that that not only plays into your authenticity and allows people to connect to you well, but I also feel like there was, I did an interview with a lady named Natalie who said that she believes that when you own your stories, be they them, good or bad.

00:23:20 When you own your life experiences, especially the bad ones, they no longer have power over you. Right. And I feel like when you are just vulnerable and open with yourself and just yourself on the podcast and open in real life, it allows you to just be yourself a lot louder rather than trying to have to shift back and forth from mode to mode. And like when you’re trying to play to people, like they fight against each because you’re not, because you’re literally being two different identities, one on the podcast and one in real life or what I should say in content and one in real life. You know what I mean?

00:23:54 Yeah. Do I love that? I mean that’s, that’s spot on. I think that’s literally [inaudible] that’s, that’s my take on everything. I mean I remember like for example, if we’re talking about the entrepreneurship space, maybe, Ooh, four years ago, four or four ish years ago I, I created a course online, did a webinar. It was how to build a brand and I did it and we sold six figures. It was decent, small little business. But man, it just felt so wrong and it was the same exact thing you’re describing right now. I was like, Oh, who am I today? Am I keys, Kenny successful entrepreneur or my regular case Kenny? Mildly successful entrepreneur. Like which one is it like, and I hated it, I hated it. And that business never would have scaled because you could taste that. Now, for example, like humbly. So like I could, if I could create a course right now and sell it to my listeners and they, they would buy it.

00:24:46 I, it would be an easy, easy thing to do. And of course the content have to make sense, but they would buy it from me because they know what I represent. It’s the same reason that I am hosting a retreat into loom for $3,000 a piece and I sold out to 10 people in the first day very quick. But that’s because people know what I represent and I’m not being any anything other than who I really him. And that’s a pretty dramatic departure from how I used to see things. But I it is, you know, but it takes a long time to get to this point. Like if someone’s going into buy from you and you are being authentic, I might take a little bit more time because you’re not throwing shiny objects out. You’re not marketing your way yourself in the same way that other people are.

00:25:28 They’re not doing the plains and lambos thing. You’re just being real. And that takes time because that’s not as flashy as what other people are doing. But I think in the long run it’s going to benefit you big, big time. Like I mentioned earlier, I’m releasing a product. It’s a product. I’m releasing a product coming up in a couple months and it’s going, it’s going to crush it. I know it’s going to crush it. I have that confidence, but I think it’s going to predominantly because the people that are going to buy it are the people who know what I represent and they know they trust me, they know that I’m not selling butterflies and rainbows. I know what I represent. And I think that’s the smart way to market yourself is over time. But again, you know, I get the space so people will do what they do.

00:26:09 Right, right. Well yeah and that is very true. People will do what they do. There’s always going to be the people that flash lambos and you know, sit on a beach in Bali and act like they have their life together when they got 3 cents in their bank account. Right. Um, and then there’s always going to be the polar opposite and the, you know, the people that don’t advertise or market enough, how do you go about making decisions when it comes to when to monetize, when to you know, scale or put effort into one place or another. Because like, so you have PRSUIT, which I want to get to here in a second. With that out of pursuit comes to which you said it would came more for you wish. I absolutely love cause I do things for myself too. I post you follow me on Instagram so that you see every morning I posted a great day to make your life or change your life for the better.

00:26:54 People ask me all the time and I’m like, dude, because I post that for me because every single day I have to remind myself that no matter what happens, it’s still a good day to make my life better. Right? Anyway, so I love that. But obviously there are other huge decisions that need to be made in any business or podcast or email list or your email list, 215,000, 270,000 people that is not small. And for those of you that have never managed an email list, um, 215,000 people, it’s not just like, oh, I’m just gonna send out an email today. It’s like a full time job. So how do you determine where to put your effort, where to put your energy, what’s right for the podcast or the content, or whether you take a brand deal or not, or when to release a product? How do you make those decisions?

00:27:41 Yeah, it’s a good question. And I think I’m, I’m slowly getting to the point of knowing that formula. But to my point, I’ve, I’ve Husted everything. I’ve sold courses. I’ve done affiliates. I’ve done many, many, many, many, many, many sponsorships and brand deals. I’ve sold tickets to events. I’ve still tickets to my own events. I’ve promoted other people’s podcasts. I’ve done CPA deals, CPA. I’ve done everything under the sun. I think what I’m realizing now is you need to have a vision. Well, I mean my, if you want my marketers answer, it’s like if you, if you own a email list or something like that, I believe that you should figure out a way to monetize it that is not relying on sponsors hands down. I really, in this day and age, I really don’t believe so much anymore in businesses built on the back of advertising alone on the back of paid sponsors.

00:28:29 You need to find a way to create owned commerce, your own commerce platform, and that’s where you’re going to scale. So like for example, the podcast, when I first started the podcast, it blew up. I got an agent right out the gate. They hit me up and was like, I’m going to bring you deals, blah, blah, blah. Oh my God, this is incredible. You’re going to bring me deals. I just got to keep doing content. It was amazing. She brought me deals. I was working with the biggest podcast agencies taken on deals, whatever. I made the decision about three months ago to stop doing deals. I mean, I could make, you know, a, an, you know, 1000 bucks an episode or something called like that. Right. And the way, the, the way that, the reason that I stopped doing it was because I had a vision for where I wanted to go.

00:29:12 I would want to be a pure play content creator who uses my content to promote my own products. And that I made that decision about two months, about three, four months ago, without even having a vision for what that product was. But I knew that I wanted to get there and I knew I wanted to stop beating my audience over the head with Oh, buy skinny green tea and by boner pills and by whatever, like it was getting insane. Um, and I, I wanted to maintain that audience for the moment where I really needed them and I’m going to need them in about three months. Um, so between that and like pursuit, like I’ve backed off sponsor deals to be honest, and like, it’s a vulnerable position to be in not monetizing it completely, but continuing to create content. It’s like you’re like, what am I?

00:29:54 Am I doing this smart thing? I really do think I’m doing the smart thing because I’ve tested everything. And the great thing about taking on brand deals, um, is that you can understand what types of brands your audience likes and then you can go out and create that same brand. I think they call it like the Netflix model, right? Netflix will buy the rights, the programs, put them on their platform, see how people like it, and then boot them off and create their own original, right? That’s their model. And that’s my model. And I think that’s, that’s a smart marketers model. So I took on, I’ve done so many sponsors. I know exactly what types of things work well. Is it CPG? Is it, is it, uh, some kind of ecommerce product, whatever it is. I know exactly what resonates. And I basically went out and created my own version of this and I’m coming out with it like that. I think that’s the smart way to do it. You just got to have patience and test, um, as long answer, but that’s

00:30:45 no dude, that was so spot on. That was amazing. And I like what you said right there at the end. It’s patients man. Like it’s just people want it now. And I think one of the biggest problems in our society is it comes from social media because social media is instant gratification. And I don’t think social media itself isn’t inherently inherently a bad thing. Um, I think, you know, a lot of people like to hate on social media, what have you. I think it does cause some depression or whatever, but it can be used for good. Well, one of the negative effects has had on society is that social media along with the Netflix’s of the world and, and that model as very much pushed instantaneous right now, if you don’t have it now, it’s not worth waiting for. Right. Um, and that we should have it now and patients is when it comes to building a brand cause like anybody do direct response marketing, sales, anybody can make money, right?

00:31:37 Like making money is not inherently hard, but building a brand is a whole different ballgame because, well, you don’t have to lose money while building it, but you’re not making like millions and millions of dollars or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit, um, for a long time. If you’re doing it right, you’re investing it back into that and having the patience to go through like you’ve done and test and test and test and continue to put out content, I think is one of the most important or most valuable, uh, skills or traits or whatever you want to call it, that, that someone can possess in this game. You know what I mean?

00:32:13 I do. Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny you say that cause I mean I am so freaking stubborn. To your point. Yeah. I think it is pretty easy to make money. I could drop my efforts right now on what I’m building and I could go drop a hundred k on something and jumping into a predictable business model and make and make money. But I’m so stubborn about this idea of building a brand around my, my a passion. My creative outlet might have my hobby writing, creating, right. I’m so passionate about that for a variety of uses. One, I, you know, I started it, I want to freaking scale it, but two, it’s like, you know, there’s nothing more powerful than building a brand that has impact and when you do that and you do it the right way, you could turn that into any business and you could really turn the faucet on there once you have distribution.

00:33:01 Like I’m obsessed with this idea of distribution. Like yeah, new age distribution. I think email, obviously your, you agree. Obviously emails is so huge. People think email is dead. Email is so far from dead. It’s unbelievable. I think that podcasting, podcasting is the freaking future man. And like that’s why I’m so passionate about those two in combination with each other. Like those like owned distribution, right? There’s no algorithm that’s really gonna affect that and it’s only getting bigger. And it’s like if I can seriously build up my distribution there and my impact and my trustworthiness with my audience at any given point, I can launch another brand off that that makes sense and have immediate Altidore success. You don’t have to build impact there. You don’t have to pay to play. And I’m obsessed with that, with that idea clearly because I’ve been testing different things for a long time and now I’m at the point where it’s like, all right, we’re, we’re, we know what we’re doing here now let’s, let’s really put, put some gas in the tank.

00:33:54 So yeah, I’m very passionate about that. Um, I think, yeah, to your point, I mean, tobacco, we were saying you have to check your ego a little bit. Are you going to be patient enough to build? Are you going, are you going to be vulner enough to build it? On the back of your personality. I think that’s really important. The only reason that pursuits started to do well again pursue was before the email list. Sue was before the podcast was, I put myself as the face of it for a long time. I was like, oh the team here at PRSUIT and Blah Blah Blah. And it was really just me and like a VA and one other person and I was like, oh no, wait a minute, why am I hiding behind this facade of creating this like corporate feel when it’s just a dude writing. I was like, I need to own that.

00:34:32 And once I started doing that, putting my picture there, putting my Case Kenny Instagram, all that stuff, that’s when it started to take off because it was real. But it was vulnerable as well. Like there is a s certain amount of stress that goes behind putting your name so close to a brand. Like for the launch that I’m doing a couple of months, like it’s going to be such and such product by case Kenny and it’s gonna do a seven figures very quickly. And if it’s not up to par like it’s on me and that’s a, that’s a scary feeling, you know, but I think it’s 100% necessary. You have to be a willing to put your name next to something. You have to be willing to be vulnerable with it and you have to own the consequences and either direction. So I’m very passionate about that idea, but it came from being patient and real and everything you just mentioned about, you know, understanding who you are versus who you’re trying to be.

00:35:24 Yeah, no, that’s huge. There’s two areas that I want to go right off of that and I don’t, it’s hard to pick which one I want to go first, but I’m going to go with the uh, building of the email list and the podcast growing of it. Cause this is something, I know my audience pretty well and I know the question that I’m going to get asked if I don’t ask you this question is how the heck did he do it, right? Like how does he grow the podcast? I mean a million downloads in eight months. I know some of that came from your email list, but how did you go and how do you continue to grow the email list and how do you continue to grow the podcast?

00:35:59 Yeah. So I mean, I’ll be real. The podcast wouldn’t have gotten the momentum it did immediately if I didn’t have an email list. That’s a huge advantage. On a day that I launched, I hammered it to everyone on my email list. It was an I iTunes top whatever, got a lot of momentum, picked up really fast, but a lot of ratings and reviews on the first day. Um, and that was great. And then, um, from there, uh, it went downhill. It went downhill and I was, oh shit, I gotta do something. I gotta get the numbers up. So I did. What you should not do is I started creating more episodes. I was like, I need to get my monthly numbers up cause this is at the time where I was doing sponsors. I was like, I need more monthly numbers. So I started doing three episodes of the week and in my mind it was just, I think three episodes. It’s doable. Some people could do it, I just, the quality wasn’t there.

00:36:46 And literally the numbers just started going. The numbers per episode started going down, my monthly numbers went up. But the number you want to look at when you’re a podcast is the downloads listens per episode and they start really going down. And I realized this was like October of last year and I basically spent October, November, December, January, February, March. Basically rebuilding that by switching to fewer episodes and just throwing my heart into the content. Um, and it, and it started to grow. I mean it’s, it’s tough. It attribution on podcasting is really tough. It’s really tough to understand what is causing it to grow necessarily. Um, I’ve, I’ve done some strategic things, partnerships with like the morning brew and some of my influence their friends. But honestly, I think a big part of its success certainly is the consistency certainly as the relate-ability and all that stuff. But I, I mean I’m, I s as every podcast or does I ask my audience to share and rate and review?

00:37:43 And you know, I don’t know if I’m more authentic and asking, but like I have, I don’t know at this point I’m probably like 1,505 star reviews on iTunes. And that’s just from asking like a, just like, hey, can you write an review? And people do it. Um, I ask people to share, I’m really specific in who to share with you. Give people an idea of who to share with. Like, Hey, you should share this episode with someone who is going through this. Or Hey, you should share this with the someone who needs a reminder in their life to do such and such. And I get, I, my phone is filled with screenshots of people, screenshot in their conversations with their friends, sharing the sharing the podcast. So, um, yeah, I mean it’s all those things combined. Certainly the email list continues to help. I’m always hammering it in there.

00:38:24 Um, but I think, I mean the, the, the, go ahead.

00:38:27 No, no, no, no. Go for it. Finish your thought.

00:38:28 I think like the one of the, the, the, I mean like the iTunes started, the reason, the only reason I mentioned like iTunes top one, iTunes top 50 is it’s social proof, right? It doesn’t necessarily mean you have a popular podcast. It really doesn’t. I, there’s podcasts in the top 100 that no one cares about, um, that people cannot relate to. But, uh, you know, I mentioned it for, for the positioning and whatnot, but I mean, if you can get in the top 10, the top 20, the top 50, like that’ll really help your numbers. And the way to do that is on a certain day, ask a bunch of people to share and subscribe with. So maybe that means like, uh, a big blast on your email list on one day that basically tricks the charts over, over the percentage to, to chart you.

00:39:10 Um, things like that. So I did a lot in the beginning. Um, but the numbers continue to go up organically, which means that people are sharing. And that’s, that’s the biggest metric. Um, the other thing that I do that I’m really surprised not a lot of people do is I have basically the networked to every platform out there outside of iTunes and Spotify and ask their editorial teams to feature me. So you’re talking Deezer, stitcher, castbox, iHeart, all those folks, they have teams whose jobs are to curate podcasts and put them on their app in ways that draws eyes and gets people to then, uh, spend more time on their apps so they can monetize. So I’ve worked with all those teams and cut reciprocity deals with them such that they’ll feature my podcast. I mean, I did one the other day with stitcher and they did a push notification for me, a push this year.

00:40:03 They have like 26 million monthly active users on their, on their app. Um, so I mean, there’s so many different ways, but yeah, podcasting, do you want to do well, you’ve got to get aggressive. You’ve got to promote yourself. You’ve got to ask for what you want. You’ve got to ask, ask your audience to do what you want them to do. Ask the platforms to feature you. Ask the right guests to come on your podcasts like it’s all you’ve gotta be. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta grab the bull by the horns because there’s, there’s no algorithm. You can’t go viral, you can’t go viral. And unless you get the iTunes top 10 or something like that, you can’t go viral. So you really gotta deal yourself.

00:40:38 And Dude, I just see so many people that are just afraid. They’re just afraid to like go take it and go like actually do the work. It’s like they, I don’t know, they’re afraid of rejection or something. I don’t know. It’s just, it’s interesting to me because I’ve always been a go getter. I grew up in a household that, you know, I live on a farm dude, like in the middle of nowhere, Indiana. And so everything that I’ve gotten in life, it’s because I work my freaking butt off 18 hours a day to go get and just blows my mind that people don’t think that way and they expect it to be handed. And I love, you know, you say be aggressive, go get it. Like go actually mean would you agree that there’s never been more noise ever, you know, in the history of advertising than there is right now?

00:41:25 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:41:26 Yeah. So you’ve got to figure out your way to stand out. And so I’m curious, kind of shifting back to the second that I wanted to talk about here was when, when you went in to that downhill moment there where you know, downloaded, started dropping a little bit and you know, things just kind of started getting out of control. Um, I don’t wanna say out of control cause I don’t, I don’t know the full context of it all, but like things do not continue to go up. What was your mindset and mentality when you started looking at that? Did you freak out? And second part of that comes gonna Lube them both in with one. When it comes to failure in life, how do you react to that when things don’t go your way or when stuff does go get hard or when you know you put your time or your money, your energy, your effort into something and it doesn’t turn out like you thought it was going to turn out and now you have to make this decision to be like do I continue doing this even though it’s not working? How, how do you deal with situations like that?

00:42:25 Yeah, I mean in the case of the podcast certainly I was like ah crap. Like my, my first some the first month I did the podcast I had 54,000 downloads and that was great. I was like Oh that’s great, whatever. And then the second month, you know it was like 80,000 and then it was like 102 hundred whatever. And then all of a sudden, like I said it started going down. I was like a hundred and then 80 and then 60 and I obviously freak cause I was like, am I not popular anymore? Am I, what am I doing wrong? Like it hurt my feelings. Got a little ego. I’m not gonna lie, I’m not perfect, but I’m so, so big on, and I don’t want this to be Hokey, but I’m so, so big on gratitude. It’s like I could take a step back and be upset about getting 54,000 downloads or I could smack myself in the face and be like, holy cow, you’ve got almost half of 100,000 people listen to your podcast this month.

00:43:15 Like what’s was wrong with you? Like be grateful for that number and then dive back in and try to do better. I think that’s like been really big for me. Like I want big things. I want more numbers. I want to be the biggest podcasts or in a world, okay, I’ll say that. But like good luck. Where I am right now is I’m doing so incredibly well and even when I’m not doing well, I’m still doing well and like gratitude goes a long way. I, I manage a team at this company I worked for and they all, they’re all so annoyed with me all the time because whenever they’re all like bitching and moaning and complaining about things, I’m like, all right guys, you guys want to do a gratitude exercise and like, oh this again. But I so firmly believe in it. Like you, you can address, you could have all these different problems in your life, but if you literally just data, for lack of a better word, get your head out of your ass and show gratitude for the things that are going right.

00:44:04 Like it’s a total mind reversal. And again, I don’t know the science behind it or anything like that. All I know is the application of that works every time. So whenever I am failing, certainly I adopt all the usual advice and I fell forward and I learn and it motivates me and I use it to, to pivot. I’m a big, big pivot. I’ve started so many things and pivoted to other things from failures, but at the end of the day, like Greg, I think an attitude of gratitude is really what’s going to save you from those failures. And even it will do really well. Case you’re in a privileged position, you know, you can say that because you are doing well or what if someone only gets 10 downloads a month? Well, I mean for me it’s like you gotta realize I’m 31 now. You know, it used to be really cool when people were like, wow, case you’re so young and you’re so successful.

00:44:50 It’s like now people are like, Oh, you’re just successful. You’re not young anymore. But like that takes time. You have to be, you have to be patient. I mean, you look at like a, for example, one of the biggest things that motivates me is, um, there’s a guy named Charlie who has a youtube channel called charisma on command. You might be familiar with it. Yeah, it’s awesome. Right? But if you look at those guys and their, their views and their subscribers, you know, they were hustling for like three years and they were getting nowhere, 2,500 2,600 subscribers, then all of a sudden, boom, one day they blew up. Cause I mean they went, they went viral and they got their lucky moment. But I so firmly believe in putting yourself in a position to get lucky and you get lucky when you create with consistency.

00:45:37 So that’s why for me, I can have a down month and I’m like man that really sucks. That really kind of hurts my ego. People don’t like me anymore but I’m going to keep doing it cause next month all it takes is for one person, the right person to hear it, to share it, the spread it. And that’s how your life changes. Like I got a sponsorship deal, a partnership deal with Microsoft because one of the woman who happen to listen ran PR at their agency and I was like, Hey, I really want to get you involved, blah blah blah, blah, blah. Flew me out the whole thing. One person. Well, I don’t even know who this person was. I had no idea this person listened. But I like firmly believe in this day and age, you never know. And that the way you get lucky is just to continue doing it. So I’m not really answering your question about failure because I, to be honest, I don’t always handle failure that well. But between combining the, the gratitude mindset with that, of pushing yourself to get lucky through consistency, like it’s that at that that combination has never failed me. There’s nothing that I haven’t powered through and either pivoted from or find, found a deeper lesson in and came out the other side stronger. I mean, you look at, you and I, we did that project together two years ago, whatever. I wouldn’t say that was successful.

00:46:44 Oh, not at all. Right. People, I mean, we even had people reaching out to, I mean, I got an email. It was funny. It was like one week after we decided to shut everything down, like people reaching out for copyright issues and saying that we were infringing on copyright. I mean, it was like so yeah, definitely a failure. Yeah,

00:47:05 exactly. But we, we, you know, we didn’t let it hold us down. I mean, we all moved on from it, you know, learn things from it. I mean, I think that’s the name of the game and I never want to be someone who’s like just moving from thing to thing to thing. But like pivoting is the best thing you can do and your entrepreneurial career, I mean, PRSUIT started as a blog and I did that for a long time, a long, long time trying to monetize through ads and sponsorships and whatnot. And then one day I was like, is this a business or a hobby? Like it’s a hobby. Well, I don’t want it to be a hobby. I need to pivot. So I’ve pivoted and emailing and that’s when it blew up. But like that’s the mentality. I think you check your ego and your being, you’re willing to pivot, you’re willing to show gratitude for what you have rather than what you don’t have. And you just lean forward. And I think, you know, with that attitude and a lot of vulnerability, there’s really nothing you can’t in an ideal world overcome or at least understand and come to peace with.

00:47:57 I love that. And I, I know you said you don’t think you answered my question, but I think you did. I think you hit it spot on. Like you’d deal with failure by reflecting and being, like you say at best, you know, those were the perspective on the world. And you think about that when you have, when you have perspective like, dude, if we live in America, you know, and like say what you want, you know, politics aside, like whatever, like this is the land of opportunity and if we live, you know, if you live in an developed country and have access to the Internet, you know, like you have more than the rest of the history of the entire world of opportunity. You know what I mean? And like we oftentimes go and we, we like to complain or say we don’t have the money or the time or this or that.

00:48:42 But like at the end of the day when it like, you know, when the truth be told, when it all settles, you have the Internet and if you live in a developed country and have access to the Internet, like you can do just about anything. You know what I mean? Like you have more opportunity than ever before ever. And uh, I just think that we oftentimes forget that. So no matter what failure you have, you can still go and yeah, you might be broke. So go become an affiliate person or go get a job, you know, in sales and save up some money and then go back and try again in the barrier of entry is still low. The opportunity is so large and you can be a dude making $30,000 a year in Chicago and turn into, you know, the case Kenny of today, just simply by going and staying consistent and having that perspective. You know what I mean?

00:49:30 Yeah, man, I love that dude, dude. I mean, but seriously, like the world does belong to those with a perspective. And I mentioned earlier and I’ll now I’ll bring it in. The Ego is enemy by Ryan holiday. Like his biggest point in the book is that successful, fulfilled, and happy people and impactful people are those who are lifelong learners. That’s it. Everything you just said backs into that. Of course, there’s no excuse for not taking a step to learn, but like if you want to be truly impactful, if you want to be massively a scalable business person and a thought leader, right, or podcasts or whatever. I think I really do believe it’s that mentality of being a lifelong learner and understanding that ego really, really is the enemy in that regard of not being content with what you, what you know and the success you’ve had, but being vulnerable enough to admit that you know you’re, you don’t know what you don’t know and you need to find that out by doing various things, like putting yourself in the room.

00:50:27 You’re not the smartest person. Things like that, but like I love that, that book and just the way that he positions things and like I’m, I’m big on that. It is an interesting dichotomy though because like I do, I mean I talk a lot about like big Dick Energy for example. I think I’m a sometimes over the top overconfident sometimes, but I’m also, I’m also humble so it’s like I’m the humble, I’m super humble. It’s, it’s weird to say I’m side by side, but there is a way to do it and like I think you do it really well as well. Like we were talking about earlier, we’ve got different styles, right? I’m more of a [inaudible] kind of guy where you’re as more black and white, but you still come off as humble. And I know you personally and I know you’re a lifelong learner and you invest so heavily and coaches and courses and learning, learning, learning, like I think it speaks for itself, right? Like that is the way to progress yourself through checking the ego, learning, leaning forward, but then being confident in the direction that you push yourself. Right?

00:51:22 Yeah. And I think, I think a major point there is that confidence is very different than arrogance. Right? And like, or, or even cockiness really. I mean like, you know, in sports games, I’m, I like to play sports, Frisbee volleyball, you know, stuff like that. I’ll get out there like I’m a very confident person and I will talk smack right in that setting. But on a day to day life, like I would not consider myself someone that’s overly arrogant, but I do consider myself someone that’s very confident. I am confident in myself, my abilities. Same with you, you know, and you talk about that and you know, I listened to your podcast and when you’ve mentioned, you know, things of that nature that the difference there is one is saying like, Hey, I believe in myself and I believe that I have the ability and the capability in it to go and achieve whatever it is that I’m setting myself out to versus saying, I’m so amazing. I deserve it. And by default I should have it. You know, that’s arrogance and I think there’s a huge difference between the two of them. And the line often gets blurred and they get grouped into like the same category, you know what I mean?

00:52:29 Yeah, man, that’s well said. Yeah. You know all that. Yeah. I mean I think like my confidence comes from knowing that you know, I have the ability to do things and even if I’m not successful I’m, I’ll be fine with the outcome like that. That’s everything to me. It’s like, yeah, I want people to like me, but if they don’t I’ll be fine with it. And I think that that’s what I always talked about, this mentality I have where it’s like I used to walk in a room and hope that everyone likes me and now I’m more like, I wonder if I liked them. And that’s not egotistical as well. It’s just a matter of perspective. It’s like what result mean to you, not to other people. What does it mean to you? Does it matter? If such and such happens, we’ll know. Well then that’s confidence because you know that ran on past that point. The result is personal. Someone’s reaction is not right. So you said early. Well I appreciate that. That’s great.

00:53:16 Yeah, absolutely man. Alright, we’re running a little short on time. There’s one more topic I wanted to touch on real quickly before we go into rapid fire questions at the end if you’re cool.

00:53:24 Yup.

00:53:24 Cool. I want to talk about religion really quick because uh, in the, I have listened to every one of your podcast episode, but I’ve listened to quite a few. You don’t seem to be overly religious. Where do you stand as far as that’s concerned?

00:53:39 Yeah. Um, yeah, I’ve, I really barely, I don’t think I’ve ever talked about religion on the show. So I mean I was raised Catholic. Uh, I went to Notre Dame, big Catholic school, but I wouldn’t identify either way. Um, I, I mean tight technically Christian, but I think really, I mean I’m looking over my shoulder right now. Like my apartment is confusing me cause I’ve got a Buddhist statue I’ve got, I’ve studied in college, I majored in East Asian languages and cultures as well as Middle Eastern languages. So I studied the Quran, I studied Buddhism, Tau, wisdom, Hinduism. I studied all those different things. And really I think that perspective kind of moved me away from more of the stringent Catholicism and stringent Christianity and more into, into a moral morals and value based system. Um, so yeah, that, that’s really where I, where I stand. Yeah. I really don’t mention a lot of that in this show just because I’m not that knowledgeable. Uh, and being able to derive from, from my own life, like I told talk a lot about, uh, morality and values certainly. And those, those I’m basically picking and choosing from, from different systems. Um, but yeah, that’s kind of where I stand right now.

00:54:46 That makes sense. All right, cool. So with morality, sorry, do you mind one more question on that? Of course. So with morality and morals and values like you’re talking about, where do you ultimately like draw those from in your mind? Is there in absolute truth? Uh, let me, let me phrase this a little better. One of the things that I have found is that we live in America. And for those people that haven’t traveled the world, or at least experienced other culture or studied it, like they don’t realize how drastically radically different other parts of the world are. And that includes a lot of religion. Right? And so like I feel like in America we often tend to like base the world off of what we know and America is so not an accurate picture of the world. And so we tend to draw conclusions based off of that. But for someone like you that has a lot of different perspective, you know, we see things a little bit differently. You and I both I think do, but one of the questions that I’m always fascinated with, with people that have perspective is do you believe in an absolute truth or where do you draw your morals and values from? Like how do you decide what those things are?

00:55:53 Oh man, that’s a good freaking question. Um, I, I, my immediate reaction to that, I would probably want to think about it, but my immediate reaction is I don’t, I don’t really believe in a one absolute binary truth. I think my, I mean, I believe in, uh, you know, I, I believe in, in very familiar morals and [inaudible] values that of course everyone’s going to agree with, but like once you dive into it, like I don’t think for me there is anything. Absolutely. Just because I’ve realized how much I’ve changed and that’s come from perspective and x very answer. But you can, you can believe one thing one day, but until you live through an experience that really, really challenges it, you don’t know what you ultimately believe. You’re, you’re guessing. Yeah. Um, and that’s, and that’s a tough pill to swallow sometimes, right? I think that’s why a lot of people struggle with religion and Christianity, everything.

00:56:40 It’s like, yeah, you can believe you can, you can beat devout and your adherence to something that you’ve read or you grew up and that was basically indoctrinated in you. But until you’re challenged by a death, a disappointment of a rejection, something horrible happening to you, you really don’t know what you believe and that moment you’ll know and then that’s great. But until then, it’s tough to say. So like it’s, it’s a really good question. I mean, I’ve traveled a lot. I lived in China, I’ve in the North Africa, like I’ve seen a lot of different things. I think certainly there are truths that are binding, uh, you know, kindness and certain things like that. But yeah, man, I don’t think there, I don’t think I could say with my perspective that there is one, you talk to me and I’m 80 and I have more life experience maybe. But until then, you know, I’m pragmatic enough to know that I don’t know what I don’t know until I, until I know it.

00:57:32 Yeah, for sure. And I love the point that you said about how much people can change and, and how much they can think one thing. So certainly until they experience something that changes that. Um, I recently back in March, my brother was tragically killed in a helicopter crash and so like you go like nothing in your whole life can prepare you for that. And like walking through that, it was very interesting for me to really ultimately realize like there was a lot of fluff in my life when it came to my beliefs. And I think for me like during that specific experience and you know, obviously there’s tons of different experiences that could push different beliefs elsewhere. But it was interesting for me to see what truce that I believed really presented themselves as true and what things that I did or that I thought maybe could be true or whatever.

00:58:25 Just kind of like went away. When you go through experiences, especially tragic ones or drastic ones in either direction, I feel like the, the core or more important principles of life tend to go and make themselves more. Um, uh, what’s the word I’m looking for? Uh, prevalent in that, in that scenario. And I think you can learn a lot through that. And I know that I learned a tremendous amount, you know, my core beliefs didn’t change. You know, I am a pretty religious person, but I don’t always agree with a lot of Christians even though I would say I that I am a Christian simply because of what you said there. It’s like you can, like, you can know something to be true for you in your life, but until you experienced something that, um, changes your belief or, or your experience with that, it’s really hard to know how you’re gonna react and what, what that’s gonna feel like once you walk through and it’s easy to judge other people and be like [inaudible] like, oh, you’re living it wrong, but you have no idea what they’ve been through in their life that has shaped them to who they have become. So anyway, topic for another time. Maybe we’ll have a second followup interview. I’d love to talk to you more about truth and absolutes and things of that nature. But I’m just interesting question I’d like to ask people sometimes.

00:59:41 For sure. For sure.

00:59:43 Cool man. All right, well I want to wrap it up. We’ll do some rapid fire questions here at the end. Just a couple of, there’s like five or six of them that I always ask people and then, uh, we’re wrapping up from there. Sound good?

00:59:51 Right on man.

00:59:52 We’ll do it. All right. So first question, favorite airline to fly

00:59:56 a southwest south west. So you don’t like first-class? I take, yeah.

01:00:02 Yeah. It’s funny. I used to fly, I took like 115 flights the other year when I was traveling a lot. I just, I fly southwest. I had one flight delayed the entire year, like still friendly and always on time. So I can’t argue with that. Yeah, there’s over. But it is what it is. They’re awesome.

01:00:18 They’re awesome. I do like first class. I mean I do like southwest. Um, favorite meal, uh,

01:00:24 that’s going to be meatloaf cause I’m a child. Meaning I love Mulo.

01:00:28 Yeah, that’s cool. All right. Um, favorite or most, um, life changing experience that you’ve had?

01:00:38 Favorite? Like for the better, which way are we going? I would say let’s just start with favorite. What’s your favorite experience? Say? Uh, I would say I went to, I’ve been to China many times. I’ve lived there, but I went there back in November of like 2015 I went to, uh, the national forest kind of in the middle of the country called John Goj. And if you ever seen the movie Avatar with a floating mountains coming over, yeah. It’s, that’s where it is. And it was, I, it was just absolutely incredible. Like I’ve never felt more in touch with nature, the cosmos myself. It was just surreal. Super, super cool.

01:01:13 Super Cool. Super Cool. Um, most life changing experience, life changing experience.

01:01:19 I mean, I honestly, I, I honestly, I think getting out of the relationship, uh, two years ago changed a lot in my life. It led me to, the podcast led me to really come into my own. This might seem small and trivial, but I think we’d be surprised how much weight we put on certain things. And I certainly was in that camp and I think coming out of that, I’m very, very grateful for it. I liked that. I liked that.

01:01:39 Uh, most materialistic thing you’ve ever bought.

01:01:42 Oh, there’s a couple, uh, uh, probably my hoop lo big bang. So watch rather prices of the

01:01:49 dumbest thing you’ve ever done in your life. No, we only have one left.

01:01:52 Dumbest thing maybe, I don’t know. Probably something that in college freshman year, I always remember I missed my flight home freshman for like my first semester and I woke up, my mom had called the police because I was just sleeping and I woke up with cops standing over me because my mom had called. So it was pretty, not obviously it’s not bad, but I was just mortify that my mom had called come into my dorm room with all my buddies and woke me up on my flight.

01:02:21 All right, last question I asked this to every person that comes on the podcast is always the last question. Pretty much every, every interview I’ve ever done, I think I end with this question. And that is you’re at the end of your life, you’re on your death bed and everything that you’ve done in life is gone. Podcast is gone, PRSUIT gone. Everyone you’ve touched is gone. Uh, basically done nothing. However, every single person that you have touched or impacted in your life, either directly or indirectly, you get to leave with one final message. What is that message?

01:02:53 Oh Man. I think it would be that in living your life, what I think you, I, yeah, that’s a good question. I think my advice would be to focus as much as you can intentionally on filling your, your head with your blessings instead of your burdens like that. That’s been a big, big thing for me. Call it gratitude ever, but I think it’s easier to remember that blessings instead of burdens. I think when you focus on that, you’re really come to understand what it means to fall in love with your life as opposed to focus on your burdens as opposed to focus on what you don’t have rather than the, what you do have. Because even though it may not seem like you might not have a lot, you’re lost, you’re rejected, you feel all those things. I think we could always focus on our blessings instead of our burdens and it really does liberate you from the, you know, victims of mindset, that kind of thing. So I repeat that to myself all the time, you know, blessings, not burdens for sure.

01:03:50 That’s amazing man. I love that. I appreciate it. Case my man. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate your time. I know it’s valuable, so thank you.

01:03:58 Likewise man. This was great. Really, really appreciate it. I love the show. I really do. I think we have great like complimentary styles, so I foresee us both being massively successful here. We’ll see each other at the top. We’ll do it up. I’m sure. I’m going to raise you to, to Joe Rogan’s podcast. Matt, first person on Joe, first person on Joe Rogan’s podcast wins. Right on. All right. Virtual handshake, virtual handshake, man, I appreciate it

01:04:23 guys. It has been case Kenny case. Where can they find you? Where’s the best place for them to to learn more about the podcast, you all that

01:04:29 uh, Instagram is easiest at case dot Kenny. All the links are on their new mindset. Who does but Instagram at case dot Kinney Case Dot Kenny.

01:04:37 We’ll link it down on the description guys, we’ll link his podcast, we’ll link his Instagram and also his daily newsletter, which it really is cool. Uh, the, the perspective that you bring there everyday so appreciate that guys. As always, hustle, hustle, God bless. Do not be afraid to think different because those of us that think different are going to be the ones that changed the world. I love you all and I appreciate you. Take it easy fam. I’ll see you on the next episode.

01:05:01 Yo, what’s up guys? You’ve been listening to The Think Different Theory with myself, Josh Forti, which I like to call, “A new paradigm of thinking”, and real quick, I got a question for you. Did you like this episode? If you did, I want to ask a huge favor. See, the biggest thing that helps this podcast grow, and that will spread this message of positivity and making the world a better place, is if you leave a review, a rating and subscribe to the podcast. What that does is, it basically tells the platforms that this is out on, that you like my stuff, and that I’m doing something right. So if you could take like three seconds out of your day and subscribe, leave a rating, and a review, I would be forever grateful for you. Also, I want to hear from you. I want to know your feedback, your ideas, and your questions for future episodes. So be sure to hit me up on Instagram in the DM @JoshForti or via email